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Sniper Marked Stock?

mdarnell19

mdarnell19

Beavis Moderator
Staff member
Hello everyone,
Newbie with a question. I want to thank everyone in advance for this awesome forum. It is a great source of information. So here is my question. I have heard of Late war qve 45 snipers with a stock marking. There are a few known that marked under the scope rail "Z4 K43." Claus Espeholt's website lists 6 different rifles. How do those here feel about these mark? Is it something done during WWII or after. I have spoken with Darren Weaver and Paul Viens and they both believe that they are war time markings and are very uncommon. But I am curious as to how those here feel. Thanks for your time.
Matt
 
I picked up mine 40 years ago, FWIW. If strictly a sniper designation, why not consistently found on matched rigs?
 
I've seen one QVE 45 marked like this, photos only though. I'll have to see if I can find photos and post them. My initial reaction was that they might be post war DDR markings but who knows. The only thing that I do recall is that the stock was stained with no other finish and the markings looked fairly fresh.
 
ZFK43 Stock Marking

Here's a photo of the marking, this rifle is an early "e" block. I have a very late "e" block issued with an un-numbered 214 mount, stock is raw and unstained and there are no markings on the stock. Interesting to note the font used on the early "e" block stock does not resemble the fonts typically used on the BLM/QVE rifles especially the numbers...

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Mine is also a qve 45, c block; stained wood, stain over stamp, stamp in perfectly straight line. I doubt Combloc since I got mine 40 + years ago unless in came out of Czechoslovakia before to Communists took over(1948 as I recall).
 
Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate the replies. I believe they were done during WWII. gergnotwen I have only seen pictures of these also and it was on a all matching sniper. But they were also marked in a different font then the serial number. And it was larger too. Do you guys think that a stock marked like this adds value to a all matching sniper or subtract?
Thanks
 
gergnotwen said:
Here's a photo of the marking, this rifle is an early "e" block. I have a very late "e" block issued with an un-numbered 214 mount, stock is raw and unstained and there are no markings on the stock. Interesting to note the font used on the early "e" block stock does not resemble the fonts typically used on the BLM/QVE rifles especially the numbers...

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This is my photo I provided to Greg some years ago and this particular rifle is an early "e" block and is a factory matching set (mount and rifle). I'll post a photo later. I'm not in a position to do so at this time. This rifle has no Firing Proofs on it lending to the theory it was taken from the factory at the end of the war. I have seen several such marked stocks with one being another factory matching set but it was in the "d" block. From my observations, I agree they are war time stamped and designated for sniper sets.
 
mdarnell19 said:
Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate the replies. I believe they were done during WWII. gergnotwen I have only seen pictures of these also and it was on a all matching sniper. But they were also marked in a different font then the serial number. And it was larger too. Do you guys think that a stock marked like this adds value to a all matching sniper or subtract?
Thanks
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They would be marked different. Once a fully assembled, serial numbered rifle is designated as a sniper it is much further in the process than assembly, and probably stamped by different personnel with different stamps in a different section of the factory. The font of this stamping does appear to be consistant on all such observed rifles. As for the value, most collectors place no difference in value on these. To them, they are the same rifle with just a late war stamping variation, and rightly so. If I find one of these in a collectable condition, I'd sure be looking for the matching mount.
 
There is enough evidence out there that these added markings on qve K43's are defintely war time done.

Now, until we find hard evidence, we can only make assumptions as to why this was done. Just as with so many other circumstances like this.
 
Just for discussion, is it possible this was done to rifles left in the factory and used postwar? Are the majority late guns like this? I find it hard to believe myself that a rifle that didn't receive final inspection was issued as a sniper rifle in WW2. To me, the logical progression would be the sniper rifle to be assembled from finished/accepted guns (this is how K98k's are done).
 
I have seen several direct vet bring backs with these markings. They did not have scopes on them though and I do not recall noticing a FP missing.

Maybe they were assembled, post war, for the GI's as "souveniers" and the assembler decided to place that on there for them? One would think that a sniper rifle would have a final proof on it though.

A good discussion.
 
I doubt it was done just for GI's. Perhaps as stated a late war change at qve.
 
Makes perfect sense.

I guess the next question, how many legitimate late war qve "snipers" are out there without this marking?
 
LTCar2 said:
They would be marked different. Once a fully assembled, serial numbered rifle is designated as a sniper it is much further in the process than assembly, and probably stamped by different personnel with different stamps in a different section of the factory. The font of this stamping does appear to be consistant on all such observed rifles. As for the value, most collectors place no difference in value on these. To them, they are the same rifle with just a late war stamping variation, and rightly so. If I find one of these in a collectable condition, I'd sure be looking for the matching mount.
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Thank you again. I feel the same about the value. I just wanted to make sure that this mark didn't take away value. The reason I started this is because I am going to buy an all mathcing qve sniper at the end of the year and wanted to make sure that this mark was o.k. The scope mount matches on it. It is a known authentic rifle.
LTCar2 I would love to see more pictures of your rifle.
Thanks guys.
 
Brian Kowalski said:
There is enough evidence out there that these added markings on qve K43's are defintely war time done.

Now, until we find hard evidence, we can only make assumptions as to why this was done. Just as with so many other circumstances like this.
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One theory I was told is that once a rifle was considered more accurate and better suited to be a sniper that it was then made into a sniper and that this mark was put on the stock to signify that it was a sniper. I guess in case the scope was removed a field armor knew that it should have one?
 
QVE45 e Block Firing Proof?

LTCar2 said:
This is my photo I provided to Greg some years ago and this particular rifle is an early "e" block and is a factory matching set (mount and rifle). I'll post a photo later. I'm not in a position to do so at this time. This rifle has no Firing Proofs on it lending to the theory it was taken from the factory at the end of the war. I have seen several such marked stocks with one being another factory matching set but it was in the "d" block. From my observations, I agree they are war time stamped and designated for sniper sets.
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Brian, glad you picked up this rifle it is a beauty for sure. Your comment regarding the lack of a firing proof was something I totally missed. I went back and checked mine which is a good bit later than yours and strangely enough it is missing the firing proof as well. My example does not have the ZF4 marking on the stock but it did come back with an un-numbered black phosphate 214 mount/ddx scope and it was clearly never issued looking at the stock. There is no evidence that there was ever a sling put in on the rifle and it has a raw crispy wood stock. So does any one have an "e" block with a firing proof or a later letter block that has one? Were a group of "e" block QVE 45's captured and brought home by vets? We may never know but I would be interested in seeing if this shows up on any other "e" block or later QVE rifles.

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As stated earlier, the receiver is absent any FP. I do not recall if there was a FP on the barrel or not. If one was to follow the sniper selection process that Walther used, ( two sets of firing of five rounds each to meet a certain grouping) you would think that these rifles would already have a firing proof on them before the selection process. It appears BLM changed something in the process. It would be interesting to see how many of these late qve's are absent FPs.
 

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Brian, when you get a chance look at at the pic sticky I referenced- same thing no FP on the receiver. No FP on the barrel on mine for sure. I checked my K43 DUV "i" block transitional rifle and it has the FP... That is three "e" blocks on this board with out a FP marking... A strange trend developing? Would love some input from others with the G/K43 affliction... Brian K have you got anything that might be later?
 
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