Karabiner 98b regimental marking

Hello guys.

I'm new here and I'm from France, so, I hope you'll apologize my poor and clumsy english.
51 yo, and collecting reglementary rifles for more than 30 years.
In past, I owned a lot of Mausers rifles of all types, but now I only have a scarce all-matching 1911 Danzig Kar98a.

In a couple of days, I will get a Karab.98b that I bought today.
It's a Simson "a" block, full lenght barrel, all matching except the bolt and triggerguard.
I'll post some pictures as soon as I get the rifle.

I have a question about the regimental marking on the shoulder stock disk : 1/K.5.78
Does it mean 1st cavalry regiment, 5th company, rifle #78? Or something else?

Thank you
Francois

Welcome to the forum Oxi, unit marks are not my thing really, but Görtz/Bryans deciphers your unit marking as the 1st Kompagnie, of the 5th Kraftfahr-Abteilung (naturally this could be in error, reversed, this "exact" unit marking is not listed and they use as an example "1/K.1." so you have to guess whether in this case the "5" is the motorized detachment-battalion or the company...)

CB would know, others also, but hopefully I can help when you show us your rifle as I know more about them than the units.

oxi81 said:

Hello guys.

I'm new here and I'm from France, so, I hope you'll apologize my poor and clumsy english.
51 yo, and collecting reglementary rifles for more than 30 years.
In past, I owned a lot of Mausers rifles of all types, but now I only have a scarce all-matching 1911 Danzig Kar98a.

In a couple of days, I will get a Karab.98b that I bought today.
It's a Simson "a" block, full lenght barrel, all matching except the bolt and triggerguard.
I'll post some pictures as soon as I get the rifle.

I have a question about the regimental marking on the shoulder stock disk : 1/K.5.78
Does it mean 1st cavalry regiment, 5th company, rifle #78? Or something else?

Thank you
Francois

Click to expand...

Thanks Loewe.
Weimar and Reichwehr units markings are sometimes a little bit hard to decipher.

I'll post some pictures of the rifle as soon as I will receive it.
Meanwhile, do you think that this bolt can be made by Simson? If not, what's the S letter meaning?


Francois

I can't tell you much based upon this one photo, a really poor choice of an angle for a bolt evaluation... but I will say it is almost for sure not Simson, based upon the "S" and the four digit serial on the cocking piece. 98b aren't like this typically. It is probably JPS 98k related, it looks like their "S", or rather them or one of their subcontractors, - the "S" was used by almost all the early makers, MO, JPS, Simson etc..

The bolt is easy enough to identify by the acceptance pattern and how it is serialed, 98b is different than most 98k variations, - the bottom flat of the bolt stem will tell you what this came out of, possibly give a good idea of period too, but this one picture is impossible to say what you have, but I doubt it is 98b.

This is the only other bolt picture that I have by now. I will be able to check the bottom side of the bolt as soon as I get the rifle.
Thank you for your answer.



A general view of the rifle (#7479a):



And the stock disk :


Francois

Typically 98b bolts are serialed like Imperial bolts, last two on sleeve, cocking piece and safety, though I have seen minor variation to this, the sleeve should have Simson acceptance before the last two of the serial also, - just as Imperial - 7479 a is a rifle I would think that had a bolt with e/6 acceptance throughout (all components of the bolt e/6), it is probably a late 1926 rifle, perhaps early 1927, the Germans were pretty reserved before the IAMCC left, and the variation in acceptance and increased production seem to date after 1927 (patterns are solid until the very late "a" block, then more inspectors and more variation is seen, I think they increased numbers of rifles being put out b-f blocks, - what took 3-4 years to make the first 20,000 rifles, the second 3-4 years they made 40,000+)

Thank you for your interest Loewe.

I got the rifle today and I can add some pictures.
The overall shape is more than good. Shining rifling grooves.
Except for the bolt and the triggerguard assembly, all numbers match including the sS e/6 rear sight.
The bolt is definitely not a Simpson one (no E/6, no Simpson "dove" eagle) but it matches itself - 8881a.









I got two triggerguard assemblies with the rifle : one from a 98k (WaA623), and one which has been renumbered to match by a precedent owner.
This one is slightly different from the nazi one. It has a different shape of the triggerguard front loop.
The unknown one :


The 98k one :


Which is the better one for my Kar98b?

Francois

Francois, Thanks for the pictures, your rifle is not far from the dropping of e/14 and introduction of several new inspectors, - the trigger guards (TG) construction would be very similar to a 98k trigger guard, much like the Gewehr98 trigger guard without the hole in the front for the sling QR, for parade sling arrangement. You should use 234-1 until you can find a better trigger guard, which should be e/6 marked.

The other trigger guard (TG) looks similar to a 98a trigger guard, which wouldn't fit a G98, 98b or 98k anyway, but of course other rifles used similar TG's and I am not familiar with the various non-German variations or how they would fit.

If the 98k TG you have is SDP (e/623), and it is is nice condition, it might be worth enough for a trade for a 98b TG, - which are tough to find... 98b parts are hard to find, loose-nice TG most especially, having a nice SDP trigger guard is a good place to start as SDP is probably one of the more popular 98k makers and early e/623 TG's are not commonly found and probably is worth close to what a 98b TG is worth.

The "234-1" TG is installed on the rifle by now. I think that the other one is a yugo Mauser TG or somethink like this.

Yes, it's a Steyr-Daimler-Puch TG and in nice condition, but don't know if it's early e/623.
How can I know? I don't know anything about nazi 98's.
It wears only two WaA623 eagles and #955 on the TG frame and one WaA623 and #955 on the magazine floor.

I did complete the rifle with a nice MO made Kar98a sling. It's S/42 marked on both the sling itself and the stock stopper.
Do you know something about a so late Kar98a sling production?

Francois

If it is e/623 it is fairly early anyway, it lacks a QR hole in the front so it wasn't a G12/34 (G29ö) TG, so it is from a 98k, which SDP-Radom (e/77) replace SDP-Steyr (e/623) in 1942, - it is rare to find a e/623 TG on a 98k by 1942 (or any metal component other than barrels, e/623 small components piddle here and there but are uncommon after 1941).

The 98a slings, it could be 98a, it could also be 98b, from recollection they used the same slings early on (before 1934 and the introduction of the 98k), I am not sure you can differentiate either as all I have owned (S/42) were the same length with same hardware and adjustment holes. Perhaps there are differences but all the ones i have owned were the same, essentially, as an Imperial era sling.

Thank you very much Loewe, you've been very helpful