Gewehr98 Research Study

Loewe · Feb 28, 2010

During January 2004, I started a thread on Gunboards that eventually became my Imperial rifle database. At the time I had a good foundation but this thread helped give it more depth and completeness.
While we cannot fully understand the production of Imperial rifles, as so many have been destroyed and original records were destroyed during WWII, it can help answer many questions if enough data is gathered.

This is an effort to do just that.

You can report your rifles data here or on Gunboards, and I will in return try and give an honest opinion regarding your rifle.

Link to the Gunboard thread:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?855-Gew98-Research

What is desired: the full serial number of the rifle, including suffix, an image of the right side of the receiver, the barrel code (usually under the wood line and consists of a one or two letter code and a series of numbers) and any stock markings. Further any markings that seem odd or out of place will help in the evaluations.

Information gathered eventually will be used to write a book, - pictures are used for data collection only and will not be used to illustrate a publication.

vaughn99 · Mar 1, 2010

Gew98

Hello simson,

i found another DWM 1918 for your study. I will be taking pics tomorrow. its a butchered sporter so top, LR, and RR are the only info i can offer, but you menitoned DWM 1918 are hard to come by and it is a NO letter block. ALLOT like mine, markings almost exactly but just different serial.

later
vaughn

Loewe · Mar 1, 2010

All 1918 production is very important. Very few have survived in original condition, - most likely because of the 2.9 million rifles destroyed under IMKK supervision by January 1921, the rifles dated 1918 would have been well represented. (rifles at artillery depots, production centers, and reserves would have been the first collected).

1918 DWM and all late war WOK/Oberspree rifles are especially important, as they are believed to be the key to unraveling the S28 mystery. I believe the S28 marked rifles are a product of DWM and Oberspree (DWM owned Oberspree at the end of the war).

Anyway, I would very much like to see your rifle!

By the way, the information listed as desired is not a requirement. If all you can provide is an mfg/date/serial that is fine too. This is must have information as the database is organized along those lines and a rifle cannot be added without those three things.

Everything else is gravy.

vaughn99 said:
Hello simson,

i found another DWM 1918 for your study. I will be taking pics tomorrow. its a butchered sporter so top, LR, and RR are the only info i can offer, but you menitoned DWM 1918 are hard to come by and it is a NO letter block. ALLOT like mine, markings almost exactly but just different serial.

later
vaughn

vaughn99 · Mar 2, 2010

Here you go hope it helps. all i have

later
vaughn

Loewe · Mar 2, 2010

V, It does help, sort of...

This is a S28 type receiver, it has some of the S28 series characteristics (actually the acceptance pattern is the same) and I believe these are the rifles that led to the actual S28 series of Kar98b's.

However, this is the first one of these that has had this type of fireproof. This is a fireproof one normally associates with Erfurt/Suhl, not Spandau/Berlin which all the others have.

This receiver is extremely helpful, not because it fits into what I expected, but because it doesn’t!

One thing I have found out about people is that when you get confident and think you understand something you can get into the habit of being lazy and narrow minded- not being open to the possibility there is more to learn and this is a perfect example..

Might have to re-think some of what I thought was going on with the S28. (which has happened before)

I just wish you had the barrel though! That complicates it further as “parts” (even the most important part) are not a total picture.

Many thanks!

vaughn99 said:
Here you go hope it helps. all i have

later
vaughn

vaughn99 · Mar 2, 2010

hmm wierd the rifle pics i sent you of my DWM 1918 has the same fireproof unless your looking at something else?? you threw me off with first time seeing one. S28 receiver sorry for my ignorance??

later
vaughn

Loewe · Mar 3, 2010

V, ser. 2042 has a Spandau/Berlin style fireproof.

Significantly different in style if you examine them closely.

The S28 is the other Kar.98b type made (the other type are Simson Suhl made). You should have the articles from the MRJ on this topic, Joe Steen and I wrote several articles on this variation.

vaughn99 said:
hmm wierd the rifle pics i sent you of my DWM 1918 has the same fireproof unless your looking at something else?? you threw me off with first time seeing one. S28 receiver sorry for my ignorance??

later
vaughn

Eric · May 13, 2010

Erfurt 1916

My dad has owned the above referenced rifle for decades and I had a good look at it recently.

It is serial number 1421. All serials match and I found 21 on many of the components and I didnt find any none-21 numbers. The serial is still on the stock.

If I have neglected any pertinent details please let me know.

My intention is to sell this rifle.

Loewe · May 13, 2010

Eric, I received one of your emails with one really large/good picture- these pics here are very small and low quality, but try and send the rest of the pics one at a time to my email again?

I would most like to see the top, right, and left receiver plus all markings you have on the barrel? Also all markings on the stock, specifically on the buttstock, buttplate, wrist area, and along the bottom of the buttstock (belly)?

These will tell us much about your rifle.

It is clear your rifle is a Sterngewehr, and they are desirable to some collectors- I like them anyway! Looks a little rough but I have contacted a serious collector who might be interested in the rifle. (unfortunately I am in the middle of all this hope & change, = broke...)

Eric said:
My dad has owned the above referenced rifle for decades and I had a good look at it recently.

It is serial number 1421. All serials match and I found 21 on many of the components and I didnt find any none-21 numbers. The serial is still on the stock.

If I have neglected any pertinent details please let me know.

My intention is to sell this rifle.

plymouthmauser · Nov 26, 2010

Here is my 1916 Danzig Gew98. Every metal part, bolt and all, matches down to the screws, #1788cc. It sits in a self matching (save hand guard) 1917 Saxon repair (FA) Crown over B two piece walnut stock with take down washer and no grasping grooves, #4936. There is battle damage above the right side take down washer, and some sort of surface filling on the wood under the bolt root. The rifle is not import marked.

Manufacturer: Danzig
Year: 1916
Serial: 1788cc
Barrel code: BI222 with Imperial acceptance

Did I get everything?

PM

Loewe · Nov 27, 2010

What are the characters under the 2nd & 3rd acceptance on the right side of the receiver? I am tracking these, and they are an exclusive Danzig thing. JoeS once speculated they could represent some sub-inspector or part of the process of Danzig assembly.

Danzig in the time frame these show up (they heyday of Danzig Gew.98 production 1916-1917) was the king of Gew98 production- actually they were most years, even surpassing Spandau who was no slouch in rifle production.

Anyway, cool stock, and it probably came off a Dresden sterngewehr, as most that have this buttplate cypher are. You do see the Saxon cypher on the side of the buttstock on occasion too. (Saxon acceptance & cypher are unique)

Thanks for taking the time to disassembly for the BC!

plymouthmauser · Nov 27, 2010

Here's another of the right receiver.

We seem to have a Gothic letter first, a "K" second, and maybe a lion third.

PM

Loewe · Nov 28, 2010

The characters that were of interest are the ones under the crowned acceptance stamps. The incursive “e” under second acceptance, “J” under third.

The patterns do repeat but so far in no discernable pattern, - for instance this pattern (e & J) shows up on two other rifles but nothing else in common is shared. (Apparently)

The only common characteristic is the c/RC under the first acceptance stamp; they all have this marking, which means the receiver had a correctable problem. Seems plausible that these rifles were assembled under special conditions, and these "qualifiers" (what I call them) represent additional inspection.

Of course this is speculation and considering how much trends data on this so far collected (quite a bit- enough to know there is no firm pattern to character order- always letters but different styles and switch positions..) it is likely we will never discover the purpose of the markings.

CZ5280 · Jan 18, 2011

Amberg 1917 w/ butchered stock

Here is a Amberg 1917. Appears all matching to except the bolt that matches itself.
I eventually would like to find a stock and missing band for it or sell it as is. I prefer to find a K98. Let me know if you need more than the photos show. AE

Loewe · Jan 19, 2011

Thanks for the pics, saw this rifle back in 2009, but the suffix wasn't shown, so a good addition.

Upgraded Gew.98's are not as appreciated these days as their more common cousins (98k), and will be tough to sell for anywhere near an exchange rate. Especially sportered like this..

If you were handy with wood, you might repair the chop with a donor front end and make the rifle better trade potential. Otherwise it is probably more valuable in parts, than together. (unfortunate but true)

CZ5280 · Jan 19, 2011

SimsonSuhl said:
Thanks for the pics, saw this rifle back in 2009, but the suffix wasn't shown, so a good addition.

Upgraded Gew.98's are not as appreciated these days as their more common cousins (98k), and will be tough to sell for anywhere near an exchange rate. Especially sportered like this..

If you were handy with wood, you might repair the chop with a donor front end and make the rifle better trade potential. Otherwise it is probably more valuable in parts, than together. (unfortunate but true)

Good memory – I sent you photos in ’09 after finding your Gewehr98 website. I realized the connection after posting yesterday and looking at the links from your profile. It makes sense that it’s only worth a nominal amount for parts. Better someone else has it for this because I don’t have any use for it. Would you recommend I part it out on Gunbroker, or just post it in the trader section here for best offer?

Loewe · Jan 19, 2011

Bad memory- good database. I save everything worthwhile for trends work. Even partials if I think there is a reasonable expectation of getting the full serial/data eventually!

If it were mine, and though many collectors think they are museums or George Washington, with some sort of responsibility to future generations of collectors.. (I don't though, and as a hard core Libertarian, I believe you should do with your property anything you want - as long as you do not hurt another’s rights), I would part it out.

Probably on stinky ebay for the stock, trigger guard, non-firing parts. And the barreled receiver and bolt on Gunboinker. But either or, as though I like ebay as much as I do obama, you will recover more money there than on gunbroker, as it's hit or miss on gunbroker, - usually miss (you can really get screwed selling there- I know from experience... very traumatic).

M.Pride · Jun 6, 2011

Dont know if you need these hope they will help you out.

1914 Spandau G98
Ser. 4488

Loewe · Jun 6, 2011

Thanks!

That is some rifle, and 1914 dated rifles are popular with collectors, for some reason, though of all the makers Spandau seems to be the most commonly encountered. Amberg is close though- Danzig surprisingly is 3rd.

Speaking of 1914 dated rifles, a most spectacular discovery came up on Gun Broker, a 1914 DWM, with a rather high serial number, which is odd considering no others are known -or even speculated about... You hear of all sorts of wild "reports" (rarities) but nothing comes of them, finally a rifle that isn't suppose to exist, nor should it considering what is speculated about DWM in 1914, and one shows up with a high serial number.

Anyway, some were as amazed as I was, some collectors were ho-hum about the discovery, probably because it was little more than a barreled receiver, or its rather high serial?

At any rate, I think that at $700 it was a bargain, and a little surprised it didn't go higher, but as they say, condition is everything- unless you like "Stalingrad" rifles (soviet captures).

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=231219428

jjk5904 · May 5, 2013

1914 Danzig Gew 98 all matching

I looking for more info on my gun , as well as i hope my provided info can aid you. I have a 1914 Danzig Gewehr 98. The Serial

number stamped everywhere is 5378. All the parts , including the bold and handle match in numbers , all 5378. The bolt handle is bent down and honestly appears to be original. I know that it has the original stock, but it has been sporterized , not a hackjob but a nice finished piece. Someone added a recoil pad as well. Original rear sight removed , someone put a pie dish peep sight on it that looks good , but looks def. not new. Heres my pics.

Gewehr98 Research Study

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