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Gew98 - Simson & Suh 1925 Stamp - Sporterized - General Info and Restoration Tips

Hello everyone,


I recently acquired this 8mm Mauser Stamped Simson & Suhl 1925, among other stamps.

I guess my overall question; What all can y'all tell me about it?

The receiver and stock appear to be numbers matching but the bolt assembly is not.

Obviously its been "sporterized" so I know from other info Ive found on the internet it is not worth very much, if anything.

I'd like to restore it to as close to original layout, function, and look. I intend to use it and want it to be as functional as it was intended.

I greatly appreciate y'alls info.

Thank you

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Can you do the right receiver acceptance stamps? It should have markings on the right side of the receiver. Also, does this rifle have a suffix, I would think so, as it is a very early serial for a Simson/25 if it lacks a suffix (letter) under the serial number. If it lacks a letter under the 1103, it would fall into what we consider the 1924 range, but I can't tell from your pictures if it had a suffix. I do think there was some overlap, but usually not this large of a overlap.

The barrel is obviously replaced, not original to the manufacture, but probably original to the period (potentially, how it is marked and the rear sight is marked would help date the rifles rework). Value would depend on what exactly is original, but as you say, it is minimal due to the sporting and drilling. The more "original" parts it has the more it would be worth. All 98b parts carry a premium over Imperial or 98k parts. If the trigger guard assembly and bolt are 98b, they might be worth more than the rest... hard to find a loose 98b TG group.
 
Thank you for the reply.

Those are the best images so far.

Do you, or anyone, have recommendations on where I can find full replacement stocks?

So far this seems to be my best bet.

http://fox-military.com/en/

But $310 or so plus $50 shipping seems a bit steep. Ill probably end up going with them based on reviews Ive read and warning on poor fit and soft wood from other companies but I wanna check out any and all options.
 
The bolt numbers are 5500 with a bent bolt handle.

Here are some more pics.
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i figured the barrel wasn't original. It seems short when compared to other images Ive found. Not sure if it is, but seems that way, and the slimmed down tip and lack of front sight with no signs of machining to remove it. Will I have to replace the whole barrel to actually have a proper, functioning front sight?
Id like to utilize the iron sights. I used to do competition shooting in my pre-teens and we could only use iron sights. Id like to get back into doing so just for personal sport.
This weapon seems like it is turning into a money pit without spending a dime.
 
I have a stock I can sell you. It is not 100% correct for your rifle but will fit and make it look original. Private message me if you are interested.
 
The bolt maker could be identified with the acceptance under the handle stem, the lower flat should have acceptance marks which should be able to determine maker.

Yes, it looks like it was shortened too, but it isn't a Simson barrel either, it was installed by a depot, probably early in WWII or just shortly before, originally the depot would have probably stamped an acceptance on the stock, usually wrist, but could be anywhere on the buttstock too. The rear sight is original, not to 1925, but probably to a subsequent upgrade, the spring is a 1930's part and the e/81 is a late Simson acceptance, seen much later than 1925. This rifle probably went through a depot a couple times after 1925. How long is the barrel?

Originally it would have been just under 29 inches, the same length of a G98, if it were 23 inches it might have been a 98k length barrel, a few were altered to 98k, usually by depots recycling a 98b receiver (not true conversions, - true conversions are rare and desirable - for further explanation see my blog on the subject- http://militaryriflejournal.wordpress.com/2014/08/12/modell-98-conversions/); I can't tell what kind of barrel you have by the markings you show, it could be a G98 length replacement, which it probably was, or a 98k length barrel, the markings under the wood would probably tell, but several makers made both length's through about 1938-39.

Well, as for a money pit, all resto's are, you will never make one profitable, it is why "generally" they should be avoided, but no collector is immune to the lure of finishing one. I still cling to the possibility of restoring a Simson/24, but all I have is the stock and action, no bands, TG etc.. when done it will still be worth more in parts than together. Worse case in your situation is you have some neat parts, an original TG is tough to find, though yours matching probably means you would not want to separate it... so while valuable you can hardly part with it as long as you intend to restore it.

The bolt numbers are 5500 with a bent bolt handle.

i figured the barrel wasn't original. It seems short when compared to other images Ive found. Not sure if it is, but seems that way, and the slimmed down tip and lack of front sight with no signs of machining to remove it. Will I have to replace the whole barrel to actually have a proper, functioning front sight?
Id like to utilize the iron sights. I used to do competition shooting in my pre-teens and we could only use iron sights. Id like to get back into doing so just for personal sport.
This weapon seems like it is turning into a money pit without spending a dime.
 
Thank you for the reply and the great info.

I tore it down again to find more marks and get more pics, got a few...
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There is a C2 not far from the 792 shown in an above pic.
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Under the stock were 3...upside down crown?...stamps all have "280" under them.
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And a very faint stamp to the right of them that looks to be "ERMI"

Without removing the barrel from the receiver it measures 24 inches from base to tip.
The tip is machined down smaller than the rest of the barrel, is there some kind of wrap around front sight that would have gone on it? I cant imagine it being too easy or accurate to aim with just the rear sight.

I guess another question I have is; was this rifle used in war time?
I only ask because of the "Reichsadler" as shown here http://www.k98kforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88210
Or is it stamped on there simply because the Reich just had to have its logo stamped on everything made within its borders?
 
Im shopping for barrels and I have found 2 that are 29" but the seller is unsure of the caliber.
Is it safe to assume they were all 8mm?
 
Is it safe to assume they were all 8mm?

With respect to gun and rifle parts it's never safe to assume. Have the seller take a picture of the barrel with an 8mm round fully seated inside the chamber and a picture of the muzzle with a round inserted bullet first. This will give you at least a starting point from where you can ask for more measurements.
 
Well obviously it was a G98 (29 inch) barrel originally, the markings indicate ERMA made the barrel; the "C2" is actually an "02" and it basically means it was an ordnance spare barrel and a depot installed it. Typically the code would include a date, Dö 315***? A date should be at the end of the code, this would be the date of the lot and would give a base line to when it was installed, though it could have been years after.

As said, it is never safe to assume, but "usually" if the barrel has German markings of the period 1898-1945, it is probably 7.92 mm, - also "usually" German military barrels will have a bore measurement on the shoulder of the barrel, this is a good sign to its caliber, but not fool proof, some barrels were altered, but rarely.

The rifle would have been made in 1925, but re-barreled probably after the National Socialists seized power, during the rearmament phase, or early in the war. All known ERMA G98 length barrels were made 1936-1939.

BTW, does the rifle have a suffix under the serial number? 1103 over an "a" perhaps? The screw might obscure this area, but look if you can, I would think this rifle would be an "a" block rifle. If not, it would be unusual, or at least unexpected.
 
I guess I'll kick the dust off this thread instead of making another...

So I recently dug this thing out of the gun safe and have decided to give it some attention.

I guess first things first...the barrel...


So if this is a Gew98b that was retooled to be a Kar98b what should it barrel length be?
Measuring from the end of the receiver where it screws in to the tip of the muzzle it measures just a hair under 24 1/4 inches in length.
 
Just one opinion, I would not mess with the barrel. It is close enough to a Karabiner length that I would just restore it to that. Replacing the original barrel would take it too far from original IMO. I'd get a proper/early as possible 98k stock set and add a proper front sight base.

The screw holes can be addressed several ways, or not at all. It looks as though they would be partially hidden under the wood in a unmessed with Kar/Gew stock.

Rebarreling it and restoring to gewehr length would remove the little bit of originality this rifle still has left in it, and likely be very costly.
 
Just one opinion, I would not mess with the barrel. It is close enough to a Karabiner length that I would just restore it to that. Replacing the original barrel would take it too far from original IMO. I'd get a proper/early as possible 98k stock set and add a proper front sight base.

The screw holes can be addressed several ways, or not at all. It looks as though they would be partially hidden under the wood in a unmessed with Kar/Gew stock.

Rebarreling it and restoring to gewehr length would remove the little bit of originality this rifle still has left in it, and likely be very costly.

That's the plan. I just want to know the length to determine if the barrel was cut when it was sporterized. It doesn't appear to be, but knowing numbers would be great. Which front sight would it have to match the upgraded rear sight?

And this would be the proper stock, correct?
http://fox-military.com/en/stock.php?id_produkt=55
 
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Looking for a Simson myself. I have a very small bin of e/6 parts just in case the one I find is found lacking.
 

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