Third Party Press

Rare, Paatz Sportmodell

mauser99

Senior Member
Here is a tough one to find. A late Paatz sportmodell.. Feature's are a slideing button on the bolt handle is for taking out the bolt by pushing it down. This one has a loaded chamber indicator. Also the hand stamped serial #. No where on the rifle does it say who made it. I have an earlier version where the receiver bridge is marked "Paatz sport busche". Where this one is just marked "sportmodell". Condition of this rifle is near new.
 

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Forgive me if I am wrong Wayne, but is this a W625C "transitional", when features of the DSM34 and W625 became somewhat fused?

INCREDIBLE rifle. Want it :)
 
paatz..

Well, Grasshopper...A long time ago there were multiple builders of training rifles. Simson/BSW,paatz,Walther ,Jga,&Mauser.. All had their own ideas. But, Mauser had the best idea. Plus party help. And their design was adopted into the new "german sports modell" Or dsm-34.. The others had great ideas as well..And made both their own and the German sportmodell.. Yes you are correct in saying as time went on the "house" brand came to resemble more and more the dsm-34. It's my and others opinion that the parts for the dsm-34 were mass produced and disributed through out the Reich. Making assembly of these rifles more easy for the factories. Thats why they tended to use dsm-34 bands and triggerguards ect. on their later products. Simson/BSW started using dsm-34 bands in their 625B series. The 625c has the larger receiver and barrel like a dsm-34. They also made a dsm-34.. But, this rifle is a "PAATZ" and they made their own rifle along with a dsm-34.. Thats all Folks.....:biggrin1:
 
price..

price is what someone is willing to pay. One of my reasons for posting these rare examples is when people search "paatz" they will find this site and post rifles and questions like youres. If you knew it was a paatz Id say it is stamped Paatz on the rear bridge ? I have never seen one in this variation marked Paatz.
A complete rifle is good shape would sell from 750.00-1500.00 depending on the venue. They are quite scarce.. Hope this helps.
 
Thank you to mauser99

Hey y'all, new to the forum, just signed up a few days ago, lots of great info on this site. One week ago I bought a dsm34 trainer, in excellent shape, from a gentleman who is usually pretty well versed in German military rifles & .22 trainers alike. Well, he and a couple of his collecting buddies couldn't identify this rifle so they pronounced "it must be a fake or post war produced copy, just get rid of it!". So he brought it to me at the local gun shop that I work at, and knowing my love of .22 target & training rifles, offered it to me for what he said he paid for it ($450.), how could I lose? After buying it I immediately went on the research warpath and finally found this site & Wayne's thread on the Paatz Sportmodell. AAAH!! AAAAAAAH!!!! The clouds parted & the heavens opened up, there were pictures of the gun that I was holding in my hands!! I couldn't believe it! The only difference was the serial#, mine is 13268, & my BUG proofs are on the bottom of the barrel, under the wood, otherwise, the same exact gun. Thank you very much for providing such a valuable & knowledgable data base on these awesome German trainers & military Mausers too. I hope to become an active member of this forum.
 
Paatz

Well, that was my intention to help allow people to i.d. these scarce rifles. Please post some photos when you can. You may have to post a few more time to get the rights to post photos. I have since picked up another example and just haven't gotten around to posting it yet.. Yours will be only the third ive seen.. Good score.
 
Paatz

Only third one seen? Wow, that's amazing! Here's a photo I took the day I got it. Sorry for the quality, took it with my iPhone in a poorly lit area, will take & post better ones in a day or two. This one clearly shows the "SPORTMODELL" on the rear of the receiver.
 

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looks nice. The example I recently picked up I can see a faint PAATZ on the bridge. Im not sure if I can photo it as its super faint. Im assuming they scrubbed their name off them for what ever reason to make a sterile "sportmodell" trainer. They also made a DSM34 in very limited numbers and Im sure had to do with the "money grab" that was going on if there was indeed a kickback for each rifle produced by the party. This late PAATZ sportmodell uses dsm 34 bands and rear site hardware. Its speculation only that rifle would fall into the production time line as BSW's 625b series. Circa 1936. These rifles and the dsm34's made by PAATZ were allotted serial blocks.. Starting at a specific #. These serial numbers give no indication of production. With the three examples seen so far we can see how for they are spread out. I wouldn't be surprised if it was only a few thousand examples.
 
Paatz

Well here are the photos as promised. These 1st 9 photos are various pics of the rifle on the outside.
 

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Paatz

This 2nd set of photos are what's under the wood. You'll notice there are no #'s matching the serial #, but all the pieces have little number 10's on them. The stock itself has the number 24 in the barrel channel and you can barely see a little #10 just to the left of the 24. The hand guard also has a number 24 in its channel. Overall the rifle is in excellent condition with minor scratches and doinks here and there. Bore is mint! Hope these photos are of good enough quality and help out the cause to better ID these rifles.
 

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A lot of these small manufactures seemed to use sub-assembly numbers instead of serial numbering the internal and stock components. The other two of these rifles Ive handled are in this type of condition. Showing little to no use.
 
Only third one seen? Wow, that's amazing! Here's a photo I took the day I got it. Sorry for the quality, took it with my iPhone in a poorly lit area, will take & post better ones in a day or two. This one clearly shows the "SPORTMODELL" on the rear of the receiver.

Great rifle, but technically not a DSM-34.
 
Several, several makers turned out smallbores (and air guns) with the term "Sport" or "Sportmodell" in the name &/or marked on the gun. This is not because they were copying the DSM (most of them PRECEDE the DSM, in fact) but because all of them INCLUDING the DSM are patterned after the military carbine. The "sport" merely indicates "non-military" in spite of appearance. No one had a copyright on the term "Sportmodell" by itself. Mauser DID retain rights to "Deutsches Sportmodell" however.
Steve
 
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Steve, a lot of these rifles do precede the dsm34 but, were made for at least a year or two after the dsm34's creation. How else would we explain them all using some components of the dsm34? I.E. bands and rear sights, Triggerguards Ect. I have a pre-dsm 34 Paatz sport modell and it has different bands and sling arrangement. Like a simson w625. If feel the idea was to copy as closely as possible the dsm34 to get their rifles to sell side by side with the Reich's approved design for a trainer. Thoughts ?
 
Whereas, Bob may be technically correct in saying that the Paatz is not a "true" DSM34, and since Mauser owned the rights to the name Deutsches Sportmodell, then only the Mauser made, and contract made guns (using the Mauser designed B-type action), are "true" DSM34's. However, I feelthinkbelieve, (as a lot of enthusiasts do), that since these rifles are visually similar to, were made for the same purposes and intents as, to compete directly with, and were utilized by the same groups, clubs, and organizations for the same training and competition purposes that the "true" DSM's were designed for, I'm comfortable with putting them in the same category as the "true" DSM34. I really don't feelthinkbelieve that we'll ever have to create a sub category to describe and define these non "true" DSM's, but if any of you out there wish to undertake the task of doing so, I'm not opposed to it.
:thumbsup:
 
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Paatz did make a very few DSMs on the Mauser design. They were a small firm, and there was nothing to prevent them from using any DSM bands they might have purchased (or made) on other types of guns they produced. Chiefly just the actions and sights were patent designs on many of these guns. There is one Paatz DSM recorded which was a later made afterthought, evidently, which also indicates they were using up leftover parts. Most of the small makers who were producing the DSM dropped their production of the model by the end of 1935---about a year and a half after it began. The C.d.A. who had ordered the design had already rejected it as "not close enough" to the K98k, and the search was on for what would become the KKW. They were still buying DSMs in the meantime, but from that point on it was really only Mauser and Walther making them. The W625B and the Walther Sportmodell had both been declined for selection for the same reason---not close ENOUGH for the customer's wishes. BSW altered the B into the W625C model to make it more closely resemble the K98k, despite the fact that they knew its bolt/action would not get it accepted. And it didn't---even when they offered to rename it the "SA Sportmodell."
They were all used as "trainers" to some degree. Lots of them used the term "Sportmodell" but "DSM" really only stands for "Deutches Sportmodell" and that term was protected by Mauser and could only be used on contract license to manufacture that one design.
Steve
 
Its also important to note that "Gleichschaltung" was very much behind the purpose of this gun---STANDARDIZING all of these various models into ONE ACCEPTED NATIONAL STANDARD. That was much of the whole idea behind the creation of the DSM at its conception.
Steve
 
The fact that it's not a dsm34 to me is what makes it interesting. Also the extent they tried to make it resemble the dsm34 as much as possible.. It's like there is only one "coca cola" but, there are a lot of companies trying to look and make a cola close to it.. I don't think Mauser had any more pull than lets say Walther did in the party. But, Mauser had the patents and designs of the K98k and the k98 was the standard service rifle. So they were able to clone and downsize the bolt design and no one else could copy it. I think that's the key feature to it being approved over the rest.
 

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