suspect?? Gustloff kkws

Here are a couple gustloff kkw's I'd like to discuss. Us guys who are always browsing have seen them. I just figured we could bat these around..

1] A mid range Gustloff 240,000 range. Nothing special. Luftwaffe marked. This stamp shows up on Luftwaffe drillings and I've seen one legit BSW over and under skeet gun with this mark. The way its stamped doesnt lent to the 'good" side. But, I'm one to listen to reason and maybe someone has seen another. I have not. I have also not seen this stamp being abused on rifles so it leans me to believe it could be correct. Opinions???

gustloff #2

This is another I was curious about. This is the latest gustloff recorded. Per someone who tracks these things. I tried to contact the seller to see if it bore the e/749 waffenampt that all 270,000 range gustloffs seem to have. No reply was given. So I can only speculate it must have. Of note is the fact that the stock is D.R. stamped.
It looks like a good Deucthes reichsbahn stamp but I feel this rifle is a little late to fall it the catagory of a reichs bahn trainer. Maybe the stock was swapped out? Of course comments and opinions are welcolmed.

Luftwaffe and DRP Gustloffs

First rifle number 1. I have observed this Luftwaffe marking before on a Mauser KKW but failed to note the SN. It is however it the Bob Simpson collection, and I can check on that.

Rifle number 2 with DRP marking: I have not observed that marking before on any trainer. That does not rule it out as being legit.

Essentially, unless provenance is known until I have observed a property mark on more than one piece, I hold it in question. It further adds creedence when the second or subsequent observations come from rifles that "emerged" in significantly geographically seperate areas. Not so much now that internet medium has much expanded sales world wide. Can't rule it in, can't rule it out. More suspect are the pieces that emerge from collections where provenance is not known. But there again, I hesitate to say it has been "enhanced".

Just my take on it. That and $2 gets you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

DR Marked Gustloff KKWs

I have records of two Gustloff examples 253,560 and 254,004 that have the DR stock cartouche. Interestingly, I have records and pix showing 245,810 as not having the luft cartouche, but instead a NSDAP cartouche.

Unusual or rare marks probably call for a wait and see approach before a sound attribution can be made or before such marks are panned. I concur with Jim.

gustloff

2 bucks..not at any starbucks I've ever been to!!


Jim, I know it's hard to evaluate these things with the photos available. These were all that was posted. I just wanted to get some opinions. I had never seen either marking on a kkw period. I know enough to know I dont know everything. The late rifle being issued to the reichs bahn seems a bit odd to me. I thought maybe the stock got swapped out. I have never seen this D.R. stamp either on anything. Nor has another advanced collector.

mauser99 said:

2 bucks..not at any starbucks I've ever been to!!


Jim, I know it's hard to evaluate these things with the photos available. These were all that was posted. I just wanted to get some opinions. I had never seen either marking on a kkw period. I know enough to know I dont know everything. The late rifle being issued to the reichs bahn seems a bit odd to me. I thought maybe the stock got swapped out. I have never seen this D.R. stamp either on anything. Nor has another advanced collector.

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That stamp is reported and photographed on at least one Walther M4 in a German collection. I'd inquire on Still's Luger Forum. I t h i n k I've seen it on a G98 (M?) or K98a butt.

mauser99 said:

1] A mid range Gustloff 240,000 range. Nothing special. Luftwaffe marked.

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OT, but my KKW is real close to this one 243k, but it has an un-numbered bolt. Is that correct?


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Gustloff bolts

Yes from my observations bolts may be either totally un-numbered or electric pencil numbered. (or vibro etched another term)

bump thread... I have seen these before and this is where they were dissussed.. Not much was made of it though..