Third Party Press

Simson/BSW 625a,b,c,L? For review.

mauser99

Senior Member
These are photos I took a while back. If you've been on the old gunboards site you have seen these and I will bore you with them again.:yawn: But, These show some of the progression in the 625 line that clearly shows It's morphing into a dsm-34 lookalike.
I still feel This rifle was BSW's primary focus even though they made/ or assembled dsm-34's Marked BSW. THey made 625's till the apearance of the KKW..I'd say right at the 200,000 range. As 625L's show up right till just under that figure.
 

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bands..

Here is the change from the Simson type band that is held on with a screw acting also as a sling swivel. To the dsm-34 band being secured with the cross pin. This happens between the A and B modell and I'm sure there is some lag between on serial numbers as JimW. explained on Bob's post.
 

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front sight

Front sight change between the A & B modell. This B modell is an early simson B modell that is fairly scarce. It still uses the Simson type upper band With the dsm-34 lower.

"added"-overall of a simson 625B showing the use of dsm lower band and Simson upper. By this point it shows the 625 was using the sights,and lower band and handguard retaining ring. The handguard it's self is more narrow at this point as the 625b has a more narrow receiver diameter.
 

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Loading gate

Again, A really early Simson B and a later more common BSW B, The loading gate has been opened up quite a bit.
 

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So what is a W624 Wayne? :moon::facepalm::laugh:


"It's a very rare version just before the 625 and 626!!!!!
Give a guy a break...Or I'll stop feeding you good rifles.."" M99:ban::ban::ban::ban::ban:

Vulch reply: I knew you made rifles up... I KNEW IT! I won't show you my W623 then for editing my post and your original post to reflect your shame :)
 
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BSW 625C and 625L contravercy & Logo change

I started this mess and I'm still on the fence. Some say it's a C .Some like myself say it's a capitol L and others are un-decided. It coincideds with the logo change at BSW and The rifles are different enough to be another modell. I have a gothic capitol letter chart which I will post at some point. B.Simpson agrees with me on the text but has no period documentation to confirm the excisitance of a modell L. Most of the one's I've seen are also police E/L property marked like mine. JoeW. way trying to dig up a manual at one point. So it's just one of those things we can disscuss again.
 

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625's

See Vulch, I do like these things.. I remember the one you bought. It's got some mixed features as well..Glad the stock was repairable...
 
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625's


The biggest argument is."why would they of made a C then an L" ? It makes no sense so it has to be a "C"..They skipped all those letters in a series. Well my answer is. "this is a company that made a modell "Z" aparantly berfore or during the C or B series.

Even Henry Ford made the model T before the A.. Just food for thought...
 
L suffix

Wayne perhaps I missed it, but you do not say if that rifle is .22 or 4mm??

I have examined all the factory catalogs from 1933 to 1940 and there is no mention of W625L.

As with any german firearm of this period I will never say "never".

Caliber and better pic of receiver?

Have you compared the role mark to one of the 4mm W625Z's?

The first mention of the W625C in the catalogs is 1938.
The 1937 catalog still indicates the W625B.

At the point in time that the BSW logo transitioned to the smaller style with the "Berlin Suhler Waffen und Fahrzeugwerke" wreathed around it atop the receiver, for some reason the font changed. I suspect your rifle is .22 lfb and in my opinion is a W625C.
 
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625z

Wayne perhaps I missed it, but you do not say if that rifle is .22 or 4mm??

I have examined all the factory catalogs from 1933 to 1940 and there is no mention of W625L....

Have you compared the role mark to one of the 4mm W625Z's?

Jim,
the "Z" reflects zimmer (parlor) version?
d.

Yes as indicated in the Catalog Description. Good Collecting!!!
 
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Here is a link to the discussion that occurred last summer on the other .22 forum concerning the on-going C/L debate. It is quite illuminating.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...rainers-a-progression../page2&highlight=w625l

The Simson "W" prefix meant "Wehrsportgewehr" or "Waffe"? Re-reading the other forum post, was it concluded that the physical changes shown on the odd font marked "C" rifles predates the use of that odd font? So is there anything else to delineate the use of this font for a specific model of W625? Wayne, do you have all these odd font W625s as E/Ls or are there ordinary commercial models found. Could this perhaps have been a specific contract for the police and it was designated with this odd font? My list of thirteen of these rifles shows them all to be in the mid 190 000 range and but for two, all E/L. Perhaps those were mistaken reports. But this is surely not enough to rely on. I am sure Jim you must have a larger list to indicate a mixture of police contract and ordinary commercial sales.

Bob Simpson remarked in the other discussion that there was no W625L shown in the catalogs they had that ran to 1938. But the E/L marked BSWs were not necessarily made in 1938 or earlier. Any later printed catalog evidence of models?
 
625"s

Thanks Joe. This was one of the most interesting topics brought up. The linking of the thread helps as well. I cant say if they were all made for the police. Just a number of examples are police marked. Mine has a barrel 1" longer than my 625C. If the KKW was introduced in 39 these would have to predate the kkw. Bill G's example is the lowest and I've noted them just under 200k. As the BSW kkw probably starts at 200,000.. This is a chart I used to study the text. There is no german "C" that has that shape. No matter what font you use. The capitol letter "L" on the other hand has that exact shape.. It's the only piece of evidence I can use and the facts are pretty clear cut.
 

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All of the 13 W625L rifles that I had recorded were in the 194 000 to 195 000 range. A pitiful sampling for sure, but I was only looking for the E/L marked varieties. And of those 13, two in my list are not recorded as E/L. I can't verify that they weren't E/L, just that I don't have that info. I am sure there were other non-E/L W625Ls?

Again, if the latest 1938 catalog shows only W625C and only KKWs are shown in the 1939/40 Akah catalog, then it might be a true model number and not a font variation.

I guess Brad/Bob is not aware of this forum or has other pursuits at this time?
 
rifle

Brad is aware. He has just come back from overseas. He also knows and had posted on the old thread. He's not saying no or yes at this point. It was a topic of disscussion and it was really never resolved. He has alot on his plate. Any way If you read the old post I listed what I tracked. As noting the police proofs. I bought my rifle with the seller not seeing the mark. So I can only guess most people dont know about it.
 
A lot of good points here.

You fellows present a very convincing case.

I suppose it's even imagineable that with the NSDAP running all the operations at this point in time, perhaps a specific model designation might have been applied for that contract only. My old notes on SN obersvations are not that thorough and with no examples in my possession to review can't tell you if all with this style suffix are also Police marked on the stocks. If I understand you correctly you are both saying that is the case on all you have observed. If so, that would lend much creedence as does your fonts chart to this in fact being a W625L.

At the very least you have forced me to put aside what I thought I knew and think outside the box.

But, then, I am from Missouri and you know what they say. Without a document or prospectus, literature, etc indicating a Model W625L my jury remains at best "hung".

This forum is gonna be great. Good Work Guys!
 
625

This is an older topic for me as it's been almost a year since I brought this up. I have owned two of these and One had no signs of being police marked. The example pictured and one other on gun-broker were police stamped. Bill G's example seems to be the earliest observed. If you are reading this Bill please re-post you're rifle on this forum.
 
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I got hold of Bill and he will either post or send me the serial number.
 
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Finally got Bill to confirm what I had his W625C(L) to be: 185 363 with the odd C(L) and SA butt stock property marking. That kinda blows me out of the water as regards a tight special production contract for the police.
 
Considering the dislike of the Simson name by the III Reich, can we consider that the changeover to the BSW trademark on the rifles occurred in mid to late 1933 immediately following the renaming of the Simson company to BSW?
 

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