Third Party Press

BSW KKW Serial List

Aeisir

Aeisir

Moderator
Jim/Wayne,
Feel free to delete this if you think it can be approached in a better manner. Over the last 7-8 years, I've noted numbers that have shown up in auctions/sales/forums for all four kkw types. Out of that information which is more than needed for here, a few observations are noted by individual example for the BSW variant. I don't know how to format a table in html, hopefully this isn't too tedious.

Serial // Date noted // Marks // Condition notes
200,168 // 8/02/2012 // // Disclosed in a public forum.
200,400 // 8/02/2012 // // Disclosed in a public forum.
200,422 // 06/05/2012 // n.a. // Disclosed in a public forum. Barrelled action only.
200,659 // 1/17/2011 // n.a. // Disclosed in a public forum. Barrelled action only with sporterizing damage.
200,779 // 12/23/2009 // n.a. // Disclosed in a public forum.
200,792 // 9/20/2008 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
201,380 // 7/3/2013 // SAdNSDAP // Public sale. Possible enhancement of cartouche.
201,963 // 12/1/2009 // SAdNSDAP // Public sale.
202,019 // 7/1/2007 // SAdNSDAP // Public sale. Stock repairs.
202,385 // 7/20/2012 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
202,774 // 12/2/2010 // SAdNSDAP // Public sale.
202,883 // 4/15/2011 // SAdNSDAP // Public sale. Stock repairs and missing the Seitengewehrhalter.
203,000 // 2/01/2007 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum. Inlaid Sturm 31 Standarte 46 Group3
203,018 // 10/27/2009 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
203,583 // 1/28/2011 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
203,745 // 2/13/2011 // SAdNSDAP// Disclosed in a public forum.
204,031 // 4/22/2010 // SAdNSDAP // Public sale.
204,037 // 8/20/2012 // SAdNSDAP // Public offering of sale. Cond. issues.
204,146 // 4/19/2011 //unknown // Published in Speed "Mauser Smallbores".
204,399 // 4/9/2011 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
204,408 // 1/22/2012 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
204,819 // 12/27/2010 // n.a. // Public sale.
205,926 // 12/24/2004 // SAdNSDAP // Original sling. Established provenance.
206,305 // 9/20/2012 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
207,044 // 9/17/2006 // SAdNSDAP // Public sale. Also 4/123 mark.
207,063 // n.a. // unknown // Disclosed in a public forum. Sporterizing damage - heavy.
207,255 // n.a. // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
207,261 // 9/20/2008 // unknown // Disclosed in a public forum.
207,565 // 7/20/2013 // SAdNSDAP // Disclosed in a public forum.
209,540 // 10/28/2009 // Marked "Wettkampftage 1939"/"SA-Gr. Kurpfalz"/"SA Fuhrer-Gruppe KP"
209,711 // 4/18/2011 // Marked "Wettkampftage 1939"/"SA-Gr. Kurpfalz"/"Heyer & Brinkbäumer"
209,750 // 4/19/2011 // Marked "Wettkampftage 1939"/"SA-Gr. Kurpfalz"/"Standarte 18"
211,625 // n.a. // n.a. // Cited in J. Speed book as high s/n BSW KKW
unknown// 3/8/2006 // SAdNSDAP // Additional mark "SA Standart 160 Bonn/RR."
 
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list.

No problem Dan. At some point with the help of all who tracked this stuff over the years. I wanted to start a sticky thread of serial extentions. Like I did on gunboards. It just takes time and lots of it. I need to go to g.b. and write down my list over there. I kinda gave up tracking them and I hope you havent.
 
Has anyone ever noticed the use of a sheet metal/welded muzzle end barrel band on Gustloff KKWs?
 
Aeisir, if I had a pic I would have posted. I asked the question as I found a DRGM granted to Gustloff for the design of a sheet metal/welded muzzle end barrel band for a Kleinkaliber rifle. Given the date and firm, and design, it had to be one for a KKW. Just wondering if they ever made it into production.
 
I wouldn't be the best source for reporting on Gustloff variations, but I haven't seen one. What is the patent date for the welded sheet metal lower band?
 
1939/40 if I remember. It is in the trainer file at the office. Definitely Gustloff. And it was not a patent, but a Gebrauchsmuster. There were many DRGMs (German design registrations) that concerned the KKW, including bolt and receiver designs identified in Speed's book as patents. These were not protected by patent, by governed by the DRGM law.

Also, BSW KKW # 203 583 with SAdNSDAP cartouch in stock was just reported on WAF.
 
This is pretty ironic,
I bought the 202,019 // 7/1/2007 // NSDAP // Public sale. Stock repairs from my dealer about six months ago. I will have to ask him where he got it.
 
serial # 203/745 is SAD.NSDAP marked dont know if this info helps your list I brought on 7/31/10 the plumber
 
Did someone record the .22s that were listed in Desperate Measures as being supplied to the Volkssturm in Suhl? All were in the high 260 xxx- 270 xx range so they had to be Gustloff KKWs.
 
Aeisir said:
Jim/Wayne,
Feel free to delete this if you think it can be approached in a better manner. Over the last 7-8 years, I've noted numbers that have shown up in auctions/sales/forums for all four kkw types. Out of that information which is more than needed for here, a few observations are noted by individual example for the BSW variant. I don't know how to format a table in html, hopefully this isn't too tedious.

Serial // Date noted // Marks // Condition notes
209,540 // 10/28/2009 // See notes. // Receiver marked "Wettkampftage 1939"/"SA-Gr. Kurpfalz"/"SA Führer-Gruppe KP"
Click to expand...

As a further note, I posted this KKW earlier, although no longer owned by myself. Actually, the KKW(s) were marked on the barrel rather than the receiver. The reason I bring this up is that there could be an interesting trend concerning these "Kurpfalz" marked KKW's. A friend owns #209711 with the identical inscription except the third line says "Heyer & Brinkbäumer". Many years ago, I observed another for sale at the SOS. It also had the identical inscription except line 3 bore the name of a Gauleiter. The serial number was only 4 digits from the "H&B" gun. I cannot find my original notes and no longer remember if it was 4 numbers higher or lower. I also can no longer remember the name of the Gauleiter.
Has anyone else seen any inscribed guns that would fit this range? I would also love to learn more about Kurpfalz's 1939 Wettkampftage. Any thoughts appreciated, guys....
 

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The list in the original post has been updated for 2 "Wettkampftage 1939..." examples.
 
Great to see this data nicely organized, thx! How does bSw sn'ing marry with early Gustloff? That is, was it a clean break or overlapping between the two?
 
serials

they run numericly throught the range..Actually they do from the 625 through the late 270,000 range gustloff's one long serial range...
 
mauser99 said:
they run numericly throught the range..Actually they do from the 625 through the late 270,000 range gustloff's one long serial range...
Click to expand...

Wayne,
In checking my records of owned W625's, past & present, it does seem that they run numerically throughout the different W625 series - except for the W625Z. Mine run the gamut from a W625, sn 115xxx, to a W625C, sn 194xxx. The exception is the W625Z, sn 162xxx. Any thoughts as to why the "Z" would be out of sequence? You are the only other person I know who has one of these; what is your serial range?
I'm not trying to dispute your findings, but wanting to learn more about these super neat and under-appreciated rifles.

p.s. My BSW KKW - 209xxx and the Gustloff - 248xxx, confirming the rest of your theory.
 
625z

the z I think stands for zimmershutzen. Or something like that.. It falls into the proper ranges ect. There are also two runs.. One has the early BSW logo and one late. I have seen both.. The one I told you about at the sos show.. I tried to find you saturday at you;re table with no luck..

I also stll feel there is a true model 625L and that is comes after the 625C.. The 625z was strickly to tell it was in 4mm zimmershutzen caliber...My thoughts anyway..

Simson/bsw... 625 625a 625b 625z dsm34 625c 625z dsm34 625L kkw
this is how I feel the series is laid out.. Two runs of 625z's and dsm34's running in numerical order..All my examples and data show this..

There is only a small amount of overlap in receiver logos and they used up simson receivers on dsm34's and 625b's and bsw receivers on kkw's after the gustloff name change..
 
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