Two Items I got a SOS Show HT Thanks to Mike Steves and SSR bought from Richard Milton . Thank You both Very Much my Friends
HT & SSR Scope & Mount from SOS
- Thread starter Dave Roberts
- Start date
Dave, Very nice items, sorry I missed meeting you Friday.....BILL
Ultimate Shield
Senior Member
Nice snag's Dave. Thanks for posting pic's of them
Dana
Dana
Bill
Same Here , I do not know if You remember me , but we did meet last Year .
But we only got to talk quickly . Next Year I hope . Best Regards
It is stamped 2279 Factory Error , I would Say . But I am no EXPERT!!!!!!!!! Best Regards
Hercules
Senior Member
Unfortunately, for me I bought this rifle as a matching optics High Turret Sniper. Which, it is not. The base rifle is a nice early High Turret. The Scope is a Micro Welded and re-numbered Scope ring. After much time it has become clear to me. The FUBAR late war CAD Scope now resides in my parts box and I bought a new early war Ajack Turret Scope to put on the rifle.
The white stuff in the numbers hides the flaws, faking, and micro welding. Not to mention it is a late war scope on an early High Turret. Heres a magnification of the scope numbers without the white stuff. You can see the ghost numbers above the fake numbers.
I paid the optics matching price for this. Besides the hurt pride and fleeced wallet I'm just irritated. Maybe, I'll start flipping Sniper stuff to make up my losses.
The white stuff in the numbers hides the flaws, faking, and micro welding. Not to mention it is a late war scope on an early High Turret. Heres a magnification of the scope numbers without the white stuff. You can see the ghost numbers above the fake numbers.
I paid the optics matching price for this. Besides the hurt pride and fleeced wallet I'm just irritated. Maybe, I'll start flipping Sniper stuff to make up my losses.
Yes Brian You were sold this Rifle by me and why don't you tell the whole story about how you just had to have this rifle . None stop for over a year and a half you begged me to sell you this rifle , I finally relented and sold you this HT in or around the end of 2012 after you made me an offer I could not refuse . Everyone that looked at this HT when I purchased it saw nothing wrong with it due to the white stuff in the numbers . It was only realized the numbers looked odd and possibly not factory until you posted pics here at the Forum after you had cleaned the White stuff and Matt said the numbers looked odd .
Last year before the 2022 SOS SHOWS I asked you to bring the Scope so I could have an inland look at it , We both agreed that the numbers were not factory . At that time I offered to make things right/give you a refund you said no that was not necessary and we parted ways . You have called me and I have called you a number of times since the last show and never once was this topic mentioned again on any of our calls .
Last year before the 2022 SOS SHOWS I asked you to bring the Scope so I could have an inland look at it , We both agreed that the numbers were not factory . At that time I offered to make things right/give you a refund you said no that was not necessary and we parted ways . You have called me and I have called you a number of times since the last show and never once was this topic mentioned again on any of our calls .
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Hercules
Senior Member
I never begged you for any rifle. I was always interested in them and we were friends then. At the time I was really new to these Mauser Turrets and had asked you for help. This was maybe the third German Sniper I ever bought. As I have gained experience I now realize this scope was Micro Welded and renumbered. Nothing changes that fact.
I have talked to you maybe once since SOS. As per my message to you. At SOS I said I was not sure and it maybe it was OK. You said it looked OK to you. After looking at more Turret Scope Rings and further review it looks wrong. The further review is magnification of the ring itself and study. After looking at 100's of these rifles now it looks micro welded and renumbered. It's a real PRO Re-Number Job. It would fool most anybody.
At SOS I mentioned that I would like to have the factory matching Mauser High Turret I sold you back, since I gave you a friends deal on that. That's what I wanted when we talked at SOS.
I can't sell it to someone else with that re-numbered CAD scope on the rifle as that would not be right.
Brian, I don't know what was said between you and Dave and that needs to be settled between the two of you.
However, you are inconsistent. A year ago you were defensive when I questioned your scope. When I merely asked questions. You didn't want to talk about it. You even told me I didn't know what I was talking about. So were you wrong then? Or do you now admit that I did know what I was talking about?
antique store scope covers
Hello Dave. I got these covers a year or so ago. They were on a Kahles H4X60 Scope. They are ink stamped for WaA. They fit over the Arctic Sun Shade. There is a set of the black covers like the OP that fit BMJ Single Claw that sort of fit the CAD with Arctic Sun Shade. Most of the black...
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Hercules
Senior Member
As stated. After further magnification and review. I appreciate you letting me know it was wrong though. I was so caught up in the fact people I trusted said it was good.Brian, I don't know what was said between you and Dave and that needs to be settled between the two of you.
However, you are inconsistent. A year ago you were defensive when I questioned your scope. When I merely asked questions. You didn't want to talk about it. You even told me I didn't know what I was talking about. So were you wrong then? Or do you now admit that I did know what I was talking about?
antique store scope covers
Hello Dave. I got these covers a year or so ago. They were on a Kahles H4X60 Scope. They are ink stamped for WaA. They fit over the Arctic Sun Shade. There is a set of the black covers like the OP that fit BMJ Single Claw that sort of fit the CAD with Arctic Sun Shade. Most of the black...
I did not consider you to be any more of an expert than me. Thanks for your input. At least it spurred me on to find the truth. It was not easy for me to figure out.
So much on here is political and friends related. It’s just what it is.
It’s micro welded and renumbered.
Edit: My Scope with original numbers on it and my Rifle from Senich Book.
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We are all constantly learning. I am by no means an expert. Sometime it takes an extra set of eyes.
It’s a tough thing to look at a rifle like this at a show and give an opinion, especially one you are not forking money over for. But Dave made the best call he could at the time - he was wrong on this one. I hope you and him can come to an agreement on it, but 10 years later you probably paid what it’s worth now, unless you swung for the fence.
I despise laquer stik’d numbers which hide a lot of flaws. Many collectors have been fooled over the years from that stuff, and I don’t leave it on guns I verify for myself.
I guess welcome to the sniper collecting world, you must be new to it if you’ve never been surprised and found a fake in your collection. I know that isn’t the case though….
I despise laquer stik’d numbers which hide a lot of flaws. Many collectors have been fooled over the years from that stuff, and I don’t leave it on guns I verify for myself.
I guess welcome to the sniper collecting world, you must be new to it if you’ve never been surprised and found a fake in your collection. I know that isn’t the case though….
Hercules
Senior Member
Yes. It's all in the open now. We all know we can get burned. It's just where and when that can significance beyond the obvious.
Edit: Scope Numbers Ground off as they are Fake.
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Friends should be able to work it out. I hope you can, there is a lot of respect there. Nobody can me perfect,’so you have to be able to make thing right.
Almost every time You and I spoke when You first started collecting You would ask me if I would sell you one of the 2 HT I had this one or the Late BYF44 HT K block with BEK sure You asked a lot of questions as a new collector , but conversion a lot times went to you ask if I would sell you one of the 2 HT and we chat at least once or 2 a month .
You got my SS OM 243/1939 Rifle in Trade for the HT .
I just looked at my phone log last time we spoke was when You called me on Dec 4th 2022 and left a message I returned your call Dec 4th 2022 time was 9:11 PM and we spoke for 28mins 6 seconds not one word mentioned about the Scope . You also tried to call me on Nov. 22 2022
I can post pics if need be I also have 4 or 5 recent emails I can post as well that shows no mention of this HT Rifle or Scope .
Hercules
Senior Member
Dave. I talked to your answer machine more times than not.
I paid cash for your OM mount rifle. It was a Chase Bank Cashiers check.
You paid me by check and your Zeiss Low Turret Scope for the late war High Turret.
I think something could be worked out. The one thing I know is there was never going to a good time for this. The balls in your court though.
Absolut
Senior Member
@Dave Roberts in the OP of this thread you thank Mike Steves for this HT rifle. Does this indicate you bought it from him, or did you mean he gave you the lead on this? And would you mind unveiling how much you got paid for it in 2012?
Dave bought this at the sos, I had no stake in it and didn’t know the walk up that he bought it from. The base rifle is a great early byf44 high turret - at the time the scope serials were highlighted with white laquer which hid the fake numbers, a lot of guys looked at it but nobody caught it. Honestly my recollection is I looked at the base rifle and it was good, but I guess now it looks like my miss since the scope is bad (hint, I never bless scope serial numbers, even back then since sniper collecting is so rotten with fakes, I prefer to not even give opinions on them now from photos). But hey, I’ll own up to a mistake but not chain of custody.
