A Few New Gews

I like rhyming titles...

Starting with the best. This nice Spandau 1916 I picked up at the Ohio Gun Collectors Show on the 11th, I got it pretty cheap and with funds from selling the DOU 44 that I owned for about 3 weeks.. It is a very nice, untouched gun. It is all matching but for the striker assembly. I figure since it is not duffle cut the pin was at least clipped, and some owner replaced the whole assembly instead of just the pin. Just an assumption. Not much else to say about it, except that it is in really excellent condition.

I have one question though. The mark above the stock's serial number, could that be a contractor mark? I might have seen it on other parts before, but I can't tell since it's on wood.

Full pictures here: https://picasaweb.google.com/cm13637aef/Spandau19167997z?authkey=Gv1sRgCMyZwdzquqq2zgE#

SPANDAU 1916

Receiver SN 9779z
Barrel SN 9779z Kr 272
Front sight SN 79
Rear sight SN 79
Sight Slider SN 79, 79, 79
Ejector box SN 79
Trigger Sear SN 79
Front barrel band SN 79
Rear barrel band SN 79
Trigger guard SN 9779
Trigger guard screws SN 79, 79
Floor Plate SN 79
Follower SN 79
Stock SN 9779
Handguard SN 9779
Buttplate SN 9779 z
Bayonet lug SN 79
Cleaning Rod SN 09
Bolt body SN 9779z
Extractor SN 79
Safety SN 10
Cocking piece SN 34
Bolt sleeve SN not numbered
Firing pin SN not numbered

The next is a Danzig 1914 that I bought cheap for a reenacting rifle. It is complete, but entirely mismatched; the barrel is not even original and the stock is South American. Still, I thought the receiver might be of some interest. Really too bad about this gun, it appears that someone tried to "improve" it by replacing parts and painting the blued parts black.

Lastly, a Danzig 1905. Nice example of a rework, but with bad smoke damage. I forgot the barrel code, I'll pull it apart and get that soon. Any way to tell what the stock came from?

C, Looks like a real impressive haul!

I really like the Spandau, as this is the condition I like them most, not too abused but not mint either.


Re- the stock marking, can you do a clearer image of it? I will review the pics on the link but this picture here I can't distinguish how it appears clearly.

The un-numbered sleeve is an armorers spare, not too easy to find.

PrayingMantis said:

I like rhyming titles...

Starting with the best. This nice Spandau 1916 I picked up at the Ohio Gun Collectors Show on the 11th, I got it pretty cheap and with funds from selling the DOU 44 that I owned for about 3 weeks.. It is a very nice, untouched gun. It is all matching but for the striker assembly. I figure since it is not duffle cut the pin was at least clipped, and some owner replaced the whole assembly instead of just the pin. Just an assumption. Not much else to say about it, except that it is in really excellent condition.

I have one question though. The mark above the stock's serial number, could that be a contractor mark? I might have seen it on other parts before, but I can't tell since it's on wood.

Full pictures here: https://picasaweb.google.com/cm13637aef/Spandau19167997z?authkey=Gv1sRgCMyZwdzquqq2zgE#

SPANDAU 1916

Receiver SN 9779z
Barrel SN 9779z Kr 272
Front sight SN 79
Rear sight SN 79
Sight Slider SN 79, 79, 79
Ejector box SN 79
Trigger Sear SN 79
Front barrel band SN 79
Rear barrel band SN 79
Trigger guard SN 9779
Trigger guard screws SN 79, 79
Floor Plate SN 79
Follower SN 79
Stock SN 9779
Handguard SN 9779
Buttplate SN 9779 z
Bayonet lug SN 79
Cleaning Rod SN 09
Bolt body SN 9779z
Extractor SN 79
Safety SN 10
Cocking piece SN 34
Bolt sleeve SN not numbered
Firing pin SN not numbered

Click to expand...

Too bad about the Danzig/14, that is a tough date! Still pretty good receiver to have laying around!

Well, that would be tough to say for sure, the 88 IR was part of the XVIII AK in the west, HQ'd out of Frankfort, and got rifles earlier than many. I do not have a rifle in my trends work from the 88th IR, but if you found one, odds would be good that the maker would be the same.

Trick with these early unit markings, and associating with mfg/dates, is that while in my Kar.98a study they do tend to trend towards certain makers-units in blocks, it is much harder to say with the Gew.98 as so few early rifles have survived with "original" stocks. Most have cycled through a depot or rework of some kind.

Acceptance patterns can help, the wrist marking is consistent with Erfurt in the proper time frame, and in one case matches, from a sister IR, but that is hardly proof of what your stock came from.

Imperial acceptance patterns are far more difficult than Reichswehr or nazi era waffenamt to track, and this is because in the Reichswehr period they dispensed with surnames, and went to numbers to identify inspectors (which teams worked under). I started with Spandau, organizing acceptance pattern changes, year to year, and it became too troublesome (value=work) to stick with it once I finished the Spandau article.

Some manufacturers are just terrible, especially pre-war arsenals, (DWM used Spandau), as they changed inspectors constantly, and they had several inspectors with the same first letter surname, - I think Spandau has 3 "S" spanning a few years, and much of it is guess work. There was some good work done in this area by Görtz, in German of course, but a couple obscure (and limited value – but in English) articles were done between Görtz and Walter years ago too. (Görtz and Bryan (sp?) book covers this some also.)

With that disclaimer, I will say that the best guess is Erfurt for that stock wrist acceptance in the 1905-07 period (time frame Carter thinks the AK received Sg98- which matches the one rifle I have on file, a 1905 Erfurt). As the only XVIII AK G98 I have on file, with an original stock, is an 1905 Erfurt unit marked to the 80 IR and it has this c/P wrist marking too.

PrayingMantis said:

Lastly, a Danzig 1905. Nice example of a rework, but with bad smoke damage. I forgot the barrel code, I'll pull it apart and get that soon. Any way to tell what the stock came from?

Click to expand...

Here's the best I can do on the stock mark right now. It might have been bruised at some time, obscuring part of it, but it still really reminds me of the script-like B mark I've seen before. Somewhere I have a firing pin with the B mark, but I (frustratingly) can't remember which gun it's in.

Thanks for the info on the Danzig. I took it apart today and found the barrel channel was renumbered to match the rest of the gun. I know reworks sometimes get looked down upon, but it is really interesting to see how thorough some are and how un-thorough others are.

Any thoughts on the cross on the TG? might that have something to do with the renumbering?

Here is the numbers and the barrel code:

DANZIG 1905

Receiver SN 4910a
Barrel SN 4910a BI 21
Front sight SN 10
Rear sight SN 10
Sight Slider SN 10
Ejector box SN 71
Trigger Sear SN
Front barrel band SN 10
Rear barrel band SN 74
Trigger guard SN 4910
Trigger guard screws SN 10, 10
Floor Plate SN 10
Follower SN 10
Stock SN 6558 4910
Handguard SN 6294
Buttplate SN
Bayonet lug SN 25
Cleaning Rod
Bolt body SN 9101
Extractor SN 01
Safety SN 01
Cocking piece SN 01
Bolt sleeve SN 01
Firing pin SN

I can't say that I can place this with a companies logo, although most of my company logo database is related to steel firms, firearm-bicycle, and metal working.

I think it was in Storz that I read that stock (blanks) procurement was handled by Erfurt? And it is generally assumed each arsenal finished these individually? Of course during the war that might have changed, and a few subcontractors may have assisted on a limited scale, but I do not recall reading about such a program.

Might look in Storz section on stocks for clues?

PrayingMantis said:

Here's the best I can do on the stock mark right now. It might have been bruised at some time, obscuring part of it, but it still really reminds me of the script-like B mark I've seen before. Somewhere I have a firing pin with the B mark, but I (frustratingly) can't remember which gun it's in.

Click to expand...

Excellent on the BC, still have far to few to make much of a pattern (if one exists) but the early Gew.98's, with original barrels are the most interesting (and hardest to find)

Re- TG, possibly but I do not recall seeing this before. Not sure it has any discernable meaning? But I have not trended "general" reworking patterns specifically (probably to varied to have any consistency)

I agree with you on the view of many collectors regarding reworks, regardless of era, but they have been gaining in popularity due to a better understanding of them, and the rework/ordnance system.

They can be tricky to collect though, as they are easier to "enhance"!

PrayingMantis said:

Thanks for the info on the Danzig. I took it apart today and found the barrel channel was renumbered to match the rest of the gun. I know reworks sometimes get looked down upon, but it is really interesting to see how thorough some are and how un-thorough others are.

Any thoughts on the cross on the TG? might that have something to do with the renumbering?

Here is the numbers and the barrel code:

DANZIG 1905

Receiver SN 4910a
Barrel SN 4910a BI 21
Front sight SN 10
Rear sight SN 10
Sight Slider SN 10
Ejector box SN 71
Trigger Sear SN
Front barrel band SN 10
Rear barrel band SN 74
Trigger guard SN 4910
Trigger guard screws SN 10, 10
Floor Plate SN 10
Follower SN 10
Stock SN 6558 4910
Handguard SN 6294
Buttplate SN
Bayonet lug SN 25
Cleaning Rod
Bolt body SN 9101
Extractor SN 01
Safety SN 01
Cocking piece SN 01
Bolt sleeve SN 01
Firing pin SN

Click to expand...

SimsonSuhl said:

I can't say that I can place this with a companies logo, although most of my company logo database is related to steel firms, firearm-bicycle, and metal working.

Click to expand...

I found the part, a firing pin, and got a few quick pictures.

Hard to say, a stylized "B" isn't much to go on unfortunately?

Could be some sub-contractor marking, I suppose, but I do not see the same marking have the same meaning (representing the same companies product) being on a stock and a firing pin?

Perhaps it has something to do with a repair? Accountability (which is what military acceptance is mostly about).

Does the firing pin have the normal acceptance and serial number?

The pin is properly marked, and numbered 81. Came from a completely mismatched bolt though. Does seem pretty farfetched that a stock and a pin would be from the same contractor. I just thought it was interesting, I'll have to keep an eye out for any other parts with the mark. It's like the clover mark, I have also come across two parts with the clover and keep the images in case something ever comes up about them.

Yes, we are of the same mind!

Keep track of such markings, look for patterns, and then perhaps a answer can be had? Or at least a reasonable guess can be made- based upon trends!

PrayingMantis said:

The next is a Danzig 1914 that I bought cheap for a reenacting rifle. It is complete, but entirely mismatched; the barrel is not even original and the stock is South American. Still, I thought the receiver might be of some interest. Really too bad about this gun, it appears that someone tried to "improve" it by replacing parts and painting the blued parts black.

Click to expand...

This looks like one of the gew98's that Great War Militaria had built up for sale to re-enactors years ago. Had a few of them and the quality of the build was OK for shooter , but nothing else.

PrayingMantis said:

I like rhyming titles...

Starting with the best. This nice Spandau 1916 I picked up at the Ohio Gun Collectors Show on the 11th, I got it pretty cheap and with funds from selling the DOU 44 that I owned for about 3 weeks.. It is a very nice, untouched gun. It is all matching but for the striker assembly. I figure since it is not duffle cut the pin was at least clipped, and some owner replaced the whole assembly instead of just the pin. Just an assumption. Not much else to say about it, except that it is in really excellent condition.

I have one question though. The mark above the stock's serial number, could that be a contractor mark? I might have seen it on other parts before, but I can't tell since it's on wood.



Full pictures here: https://picasaweb.google.com/cm13637aef/Spandau19167997z?authkey=Gv1sRgCMyZwdzquqq2zgE#

SPANDAU 1916

Receiver SN 9779z
Barrel SN 9779z Kr 272
Front sight SN 79
Rear sight SN 79
Sight Slider SN 79, 79, 79
Ejector box SN 79
Trigger Sear SN 79
Front barrel band SN 79
Rear barrel band SN 79
Trigger guard SN 9779
Trigger guard screws SN 79, 79
Floor Plate SN 79
Follower SN 79
Stock SN 9779
Handguard SN 9779
Buttplate SN 9779 z
Bayonet lug SN 79
Cleaning Rod SN 09
Bolt body SN 9779z
Extractor SN 79
Safety SN 10
Cocking piece SN 34
Bolt sleeve SN not numbered
Firing pin SN not numbered

Click to expand...

I have a couple of the # 79 bolt parts excepting safety. Have to compare number font's to see if they are Spandau parts if you are at all interested. and a # 79 rod or two as well.

PrayingMantis said:

Thanks for the info on the Danzig. I took it apart today and found the barrel channel was renumbered to match the rest of the gun. I know reworks sometimes get looked down upon, but it is really interesting to see how thorough some are and how un-thorough others are.

Any thoughts on the cross on the TG? might that have something to do with the renumbering?

Here is the numbers and the barrel code:

DANZIG 1905

Receiver SN 4910a
Barrel SN 4910a BI 21
Front sight SN 10
Rear sight SN 10
Sight Slider SN 10
Ejector box SN 71
Trigger Sear SN
Front barrel band SN 10
Rear barrel band SN 74
Trigger guard SN 4910
Trigger guard screws SN 10, 10
Floor Plate SN 10
Follower SN 10
Stock SN 6558 4910
Handguard SN 6294
Buttplate SN
Bayonet lug SN 25
Cleaning Rod
Bolt body SN 9101
Extractor SN 01
Safety SN 01
Cocking piece SN 01
Bolt sleeve SN 01
Firing pin SN

Click to expand...

I've got oddly enough Ejector box # 10 , Rear band # 10 and bayo lug # 10.

Bill, thanks for your help!

I'm working on a project rifle right now. When I'm done I'll make a list of parts I need to trade and send you an email. Do one mass trade, save on shipping.