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Amberg
08-02-2011, 07:33 AM
Hello,
not new to my collection, but since I did not succeed in searching the German museums/archives for more information, I have to ask the community.
Any ideas?
Thanks

Dave Roberts
08-02-2011, 07:05 PM
This is a Very Interesting Piece I remember when You got it and I believe You have another also , I did not have any luck with asking Collectors I know if they had ever seen one . I wonder is it a fore runner of Infra Red or as German called them ( Torch ) Flashlight . The affixing Bracket uses similar parts as Grenade Launcher . I am wonder if its for Night Searching of Downed Pilots , that would be attached directly to the K98 Rifle . Any other Thoughts or Any Definite Knowledge Known . This is a Intriguing Item fore sure .

gergnotwen
08-02-2011, 09:50 PM
Any markings anywhere? Is this a Waffenampt?

ditch68
08-02-2011, 11:24 PM
That is something really interesting.

Coincidentally, I have been doing some mild research on WWII German night vision equipment as it concerns vehicles for a modelling project, a late Panther tank with night vision equipment.

This is a much smaller illumination lamp than the broader types used on the observation rigs on the Panther Ausf. G and the Zielgerat 1229, which seem to be more like floodlights than focused. What markings are on it that you can discern? Too bad there is not more of it in your posession.

I'll keep digging for info, and let you know if I find anything.

Here are a few pics of weapon and observation scopes. One mounted on an MG42 on a halftrack, and some shots of the Panther Ausf. G, and the Vampir.

Jeff

don w
08-03-2011, 10:47 AM
Just some speculation on my part. I know nothing.

I agree that it seems smaller than other IR scopes. Even when compared to the more modern ones of today, this seems a bit smaller.

Here is the speculation:

Could this be for a lit (lighted ) rectical ?
I surmize this due to the need for electricity vs. size of the scope body.

I have heard that the Russians came out with one immediatley after the war. Could this have been its 'father'?

Dave Roberts
08-03-2011, 07:17 PM
One Question Wolf any Idea what is missing from this in Far Left Bottom Pic there is Bolt thread into the Body but what is missing here . Wolf did You have another also . Best Regards .

gergnotwen
08-03-2011, 10:22 PM
I agree with with Dave on the strap mounting arrangement, it looks suspiciously like the K98 grenade launcher sight band so I can only assume it was mounted to something with a diameter roughly of a K98 just to the rear of the rear sight where the grenade launcher sight is mounted. If it did mount like the grenade launcher sight, it would sit off to the left side when sighting the rifle, making the adjustment knobs accessible with the left hand and still allowing the left hand to grasp the stock when firing.

There does not appear to be a rear ocular opening so an illumination device of some sort comes to mind.

There are fins to act as a heat sink at the rear so whatever light or electronic source at the rear would have to be producing some heat to warrant this arrangement.

The mount adjusting screws adjust the tube in two directions but are a bit coarse and do not have a locking mechanism so I don't think it was intended as an accurate sight by any stretch but they do allow aiming of the device.

It would be interesting to know what kind of plug may have been on the end of the electrical cable that might give a hint if it plugged into a battery box similar to the sights used on the MG series optics.

Looking in Darrin Weavers book there is an illuminator that was built by Agfa (bzz) for the G/K43's that could would act as a flashlight with a trigger mechanism that slid onto the scope rail. Could this be a similar solution for the K98? A prototype perhaps?

The plastic or bakelite knob looks suspiciously like an on-off switch. Does it rotate like one?

If the knurled ring around the tube rotates, this may be a beam width adjustment.

If you are feeling like digging deeper, see if there is a way to open it up at the rear to see if it is a simple light bulb socket or an electronic device. This would give further hints as to the purpose. Look for any markings or stamps as well.

I love a mystery:biggrin1:

Amberg
08-05-2011, 04:06 AM
Thanks to all for your thoughts.
My first idea was that it might be something like the K43 torch. But it is to heavy and clumsy.
About two weeks after I got this device, another one sold on egun Germany. The one at egun was exactly the same and had the Gew.Gr.Ger. sight mount complete. Both did not bear any visible markings. No WaA, no code. The second one came from a barn near the Luxemburg border, mine from a flea market in Alsace.
The knurled ring at the center moves about a quarter turn.
Not sure what (if at all) might be missing at the bakelite housing.
The bakelite knob can be turned in and out, but does not look like an on/off switch. Maybe something like a dimmer?
If I remember right, the other thingy did not have a plug either. I saved the auction photos somewhere, but can’t find them right now.
Since I do not know what it is, I do not know what might be inside. That is why I did not open one single screw. Well, I could wear a gasmask, but I don’t want to poison my neighborhood with some harmful gas.
Thanks

Amberg
08-05-2011, 12:54 PM
even the grenade launcher sight does not bear any markings.

gergnotwen
08-05-2011, 01:58 PM
Note that the notch that secures the grenade launching sight to the rear K98 sight is not present which presents the question... was this really intended to fit on a K98?

Amberg
08-05-2011, 03:08 PM
good point!

RonBerkeley
09-06-2011, 05:21 PM
Hello,
not new to my collection, but since I did not succeed in searching the German museums/archives for more information, I have to ask the community.
Any ideas?
Thanks

Attached is an odd rig on a K98k that may provide a clue
on this mystery. I don't recall where I got the photos nor
what it's purpose is.19669

Ron Berkeley, USA

Amberg
04-07-2013, 04:03 AM
Ron, interestingly this mount seems to have the cutout and some markings on it.
Looks like: K98k and something above it. Probably the "G. Gr. Ger.".

It still do not know what it is.
But, I got another one with complete mount, and some markings on the device. My first one has the same markings, but I did not notice that, because I thought is is just some white paint.
I've seen labels like that one on other German WWII optics.
Please have a look.

Absolut
04-07-2013, 02:28 PM
You might try to contact the German military scope specialist IEA. They also have an original and complete Vampir scope in their collection since they're specialized on night vision and thermal technology.

Nigromontanus
04-17-2013, 04:32 AM
German military scope specialist IEA.

Please, could you specify who this is?

As for the label on the tube, it is looking like as if the maker name stood there. Very interesting.

Amberg
04-17-2013, 01:56 PM
Hello,
Mr. Michael Engelhardt is a very well known collector over here, with a great (sniper) collection. And he is a very good researcher.
Thanks
Wolf

Amberg
11-29-2015, 11:26 AM
Hello,
I finally was able to find out the manufacturer of this device. Moeller (Möller) from Wedel. A well known optical company.
There are rumors that say it is an early red dot (aim point) sight. I'll give it a chance and see what comes out.
I'll keep you updated.
Thanks

Dave Roberts
11-29-2015, 03:09 PM
Hello,
I finally was able to find out the manufacturer of this device. Moeller (Möller) from Wedel. A well known optical company.
There are rumors that say it is an early red dot (aim point) sight. I'll give it a chance and see what comes out.
I'll keep you updated.
Thanks

Wolf that sounds like a promising lead , it would be great to find out exactly what this is . Please keep us posted as to your findings if you would . Best Regards