PDA

View Full Version : Mauser banner short side rail rifle



Xavier
08-28-2011, 03:05 PM
Hi everyone,

I would like your advice as an expert regarding that rifle.

Mauser Banner receiver N° B75690. no date.
Ajack ss scope 4X90 N° 5674 with matching scope, base and mount.
Stock (conversion K98b ??????????????) with markings on the stock disc S.A ?. I. 1.12

Can you help me regarding the history of that rifle ?

Best regards

Xavier

WaPrüf2
08-28-2011, 08:02 PM
Unit mark is: S.Ar.I.1.12 = Police unit marking for Arnsberg.
My SS G98/K98k conversion SSR has the rifle receiver number on the back of the rail; can't speak to the originality of yours.

Xavier
08-29-2011, 01:40 AM
Thanks for your answer.
Have you got any idea about date of manufacture of the Mauser Banner gun and receiver ?
What is Ansberg ?
regards

Xavier

WaPrüf2
08-29-2011, 08:47 AM
Arnsberg is a placename; here indicating a Police district. For details see: Maus, History Writ in Steel, 2009.
This type of Police marking was discontinued in February, 1937 so the rifle was made prior to then.
It is a commercial rifle based on what I can see of the proofmarks on the receiver; it is likely that the barrel is dated on the underside below the stockline so that may give a closer indicator of manufacture date. I suspect it is ca. 1936/37, but check barrel

Xavier
08-29-2011, 12:19 PM
Please find more pictures of the barrel: seems to be 1937.

More pictures of the stock as well: what is the meaning of J5 juste beside the stock disc ? May be a Weimar eagle on the stock, different number comparing with the receiver.
I think this stock is a rework from a K98 B?????: I mean comparing with a K98 AR41 (the three last pictures) the hand guard is clearly shorter ... that means rework ???
thanks for your advice

WaPrüf2
08-29-2011, 02:40 PM
Any evidence that the stock has been cut under the band and repaired?
Where are you? UK? Looks like a UK deact job.

Xavier
08-29-2011, 02:50 PM
I leave in France and it is a french deactivated rifle (Saint Etienne).

The hand guard has been cut too shortly, not repaired at all. I think that the german reworked that stock probably from a K98b rifle and used a Mauser Banner receiver .

The stock is not numbered to the receiver ans there is an weimar egale underneath the stock number.

What is the meaning of J 5 , which is clearly shown on one of the picture I posted ?

regards

Xavier

BSW 1937
08-30-2011, 05:22 AM
Bonjour Xavier,

I also live in France but really regret that this interesting rifle has been deactivated.
Have you bought it in this condition?

Xavier
08-30-2011, 02:07 PM
Hi

The rifle was bought as one piece, without any mount and scope.

I found the ss ajack scope mount and base in the USA. It fit perfectly the holes already done in the receiver.

Have you got any idea of the meaning of marking on the stock next to the stock disc: J5 ????

regards
Xavier

Xavier
08-30-2011, 02:08 PM
the rifle was already deactivted when I bought it.

Dave Roberts
08-30-2011, 04:36 PM
Saw this Thread the other Night but to Tired to even write , The Scope & Mount and Base all look Original. Very Nice Condition . We know that Scope & Mount & Base are Not Original to Rifle from what owner said , Stock Markings on Disc are Interesting to know what they mean thanks Craig . But I would say it would be Very Hard to if not Impossible to Authenticate as an Original SSR or SS SSR. No Original Base that is Numbered to Rifle and the same goes for the Stock .

It is also my Opinion that if this is in fact an Original Police SSR more than likely it would have used the P.Kohler Scope & SSR Mount which was different from the Ajack Dienstglas & SSR .Specifically the Mounts are Different of each . The reason I mention what was most likely used , Is I have seen a Number of Original Photos with Police Snipers and each one was SSR with P.Kohler Scope & Mount . I am not saying this is the only Type used by Police Snipers just it is the Only Type I have seen in Original Photos

Xavier You have a Very Nice SS Dienstglas Scope & Mount and Base . Even though the Combination of all is not Matching there is still Valuable Information from the Combination of all . Best Regards
:thumbsup:

WaPrüf2
08-30-2011, 07:09 PM
If the stock SN doesn't match the receiver SN then the Police attribution applies only to the stock, not the complete unit. If the stock is a converted K98b stock that makes a certain amount of sense since the Police did get Kar 98bs. too bad the piece is such a mixture of parts. I haven't seen a legit Police K98k or K98b yet, let alone a Police sniper of any type.

Xavier
08-31-2011, 01:31 AM
Hello all ,
thanks a lot for your explanations regarding that rifle.
Dave, would you please put pictures of police sniper rifle on the forum ?

The fact that the stock does not match to the receiver is not so surprising because at that time, as you know, due to the Versailles Traité, the german had to "Cannibalize" whatever they found ....

What is the meaning of J5 on the stock ?

best regards

Xavier

Dave Roberts
08-31-2011, 01:50 AM
If the stock SN doesn't match the receiver SN then the Police attribution applies only to the stock, not the complete unit. If the stock is a converted K98b stock that makes a certain amount of sense since the Police did get Kar 98bs. too bad the piece is such a mixture of parts. I haven't seen a legit Police K98k or K98b yet, let alone a Police sniper of any type.

Craig
I should have made myself more clear as my meaning of Police not Civil Police , but SS Police Units .
Such as Soldiers in these 2 Pics and this is the Sniper type I am referring too . Both of these Rifles have
P.Kohler Scope & SSR Mount . I have also added 3 Pics of the Scope & Mount Type . Xavier mentions that the Stock is Not same No# as Barrel & Receiver in one of his Posts . Best Regards

Xavier
08-31-2011, 04:49 AM
At that period (pre war), the allocation of weapons was mainly done to the regular army, not to the SS organization. May be I am wrong, but they had "to fight" to find and build rifles. On the contrary, I am not shocked be the mismatch of the stock and receiver, probably because it is a K98b conversion stock...
Best regards,

Xavier

WaPrüf2
08-31-2011, 09:03 AM
Hitler announced rearmament in 1935; Versailles had nothing to do with it.
While true the SS had to scrounge for weapons up to ca. 1940 or so every SS rebuild I have seen so far was originally match numbered in the usual fashion during the rebuild process.

Dave Roberts
08-31-2011, 06:10 PM
I have a Very Similar SS SSR although it is Outside the Norm in some of the way and placement Numbering specifically the Bolt , the Stock also is a Reworked Gew98 Stock it has been Numbered to match Rec . I agree with Craig and his reply . Same instance for all SS Rebuilds I too have seen . The Stock not being Numbered to the Rec is a BIG Question Mark . Best Regards

WaPrüf2
08-31-2011, 07:18 PM
I think we are all groping about in the dark on this since we don't have enough information on the details and I'm not even sure that if we had them we would know anymore than we do already.
As I read this what we have is an SS Dienstglas unit which was fitted by the current owner to what appears to be a Mauser banner barreled receiver which was found bored for an SSR base in a mismatched stock which may be a converted K98b stock (or not, since the owner isn't telling us) which is civil Police marked and which also appears to be altered to accommodate an SSR base: in other words, a thorough mixmaster done by God knows who and done God knows when - except for the recently added SS Dienstglas which the owner says he added himself.

Dave Roberts
09-01-2011, 02:28 AM
To me from what & how I understand this I would put in the Classification of Representative SSR Sniper .
Best Regards

Xavier
09-01-2011, 07:42 AM
Thanks alot for your different advices.

can you put pictures on the forum regarding your own true K98 SSR ?

best regards

Xavier

Xavier
09-01-2011, 09:51 AM
I mean pictures of your SS K98 SSR of course...
It would be nice and most interesting to analyse and compare .
best regards
Xavier

Dave Roberts
09-01-2011, 06:06 PM
Xavier
I will get some Pics of the SS SSR Up as soon as I can get it Photoed .
Best Regardshttp://www.k98kforum.com/images/icons/icon7.png

Xavier
09-02-2011, 03:10 AM
Thanks a lot Dave. Wating for your pictures.
Please find pictures of the rifle , as it was found in Normandy 30 years ago, before being deactivated
best regards,
Xavier