Third Party Press

Camo scabbard and bayonet

stephen

Senior Member
Picked this up recently because I have not seen this before and the price was very fair. What can you tell me about it

Thanks

Stephen
 

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Not to be a nervous Nelly but I wouldn't put too much faith in a scabbard being camouflage... The guys on WA are rather notorious for camofagging most anything German military related and to be honest I do not put too much faith in such things beyond helmets.

The only thing I know for sure on camouflage of equipment is from a French intelligence report from August 1918 referring to a German order dated July 7th 1918 and in that report it mentions mixing the "appropriate mixture of colors to the surfaces of guns (artillery), minenwerfer's, machine guns and steel helmets" it goes on regarding past experience of what works best etc… recommended mixtures and so on.

The report made no mention of bayonets or rifles, but I guess they could have been done on an small unit scale. I can't say I recall running across a bayonet or rifle that had what I thought original period camouflage applied, but if I did I did not flag it in a special folder and I usually do for such things.

Anyway, others might have better information or observations that might help you, hopefully they will have a more helpful observation.

Picked this up recently because I have not seen this before and the price was very fair. What can you tell me about it

Thanks

Stephen
 
Thanks Wolfgang, - those are pretty neat and MikeF owns one too! They are not too common!

RE- painted items, you often see green painted scabbards, especially the ersatz models, and muzzle covers can sometimes be seen with a greenish paint or coating. I have seen black paint used a lot too on accessories, but so far, from recollection, not "camo".

I will check through my files some and see if I can find something, but from recollection I do not remember such latewar camouflage on bards. They certainly could exist, but I would think it a small unit practice rather than a widescale application.

Further how would you authenticate such things with what is current knowledge of the fraud practiced on helmets. This activity is really destructive to any hobby, and when large sums of money are involved it brings out the "artists" that appreciate their work and do it right with research and skill that makes separating fraud from authentic very difficult.
 
Hello,

The bayonet itself is a post ww1 re-issue as seen by the installation of the Flash guard and the removal of the "high ears".

I think the scabbard's camo paint pattern is either late ww2 or post war. That pattern looks like so many of the East German field tents and jackets I saw imported by Sturm industries in the 80's.

I too collect german bayonets and have only seen green, black, tan , white "colored", and silver painted bards.
 
Don, Thanks for your thoughts!

As for the bayonet, it shows no signs of postwar (1919-1933) alteration imo, as these features are common 1916-1918 on the Sg98/05, and Dürkopp is only known for production 1916-1917, with some non-cyphered thrown in (probably 1915'ish as most are sawbacks, but they too do not have the ears and they usually have the flashguard. The flashguard was widely updated during the war and early bayonets have them in many cases).

Dürkopp bayonets are not terribly common, and come in several variations as they supplied blanks to others to finish. The company is a very interesting company, maker of all manner of commercial products (sewing machines and bicycles most well known) and they survived the war and into the second.
 

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BTW- I went through my files, and I found nothing similar to this camouflage scabbard. Most Sg98/05 were not painted at all, though some were, and most scabbards that were painted were the ersatz variations. They were usually green tones, and some were other color shades or black, but none were camo.

Of course this is but a small sampling, perhaps 1000 in all, as I do not save every bayonet encountered as there is little purpose to saving data on every 1915 Alex Coppel encountered when they are essentially identical. I only save data on variations or interesting features.

Anyway, you might review Carter's work on the variations, I peeked through my copies and saw nothing related, but I didn't go through the books in great detail. I also do not own his ersatz books, and they would probably be most revealing in this issue.
 

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