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View Full Version : HJ kid with a Zf.41



Hambone
10-31-2011, 01:08 AM
Interesting period pic showing late use of Zf.41

johnmac
12-21-2011, 10:46 AM
You know, kudos to you Hambone. You always come off with some of the coolest posts, especially photos. I love studying them. Thanks for this one and all the other great stuff, your a huge asset to this forum! Thanks again and keep em coming!

John

mrfarb
12-21-2011, 11:01 AM
I've told this story before, but this pics reminds me of it. I knew an SS Wiking member, and years ago (he's still alive) my reenactment group would meet with him once a year and talk about WW2. We would bring items to show him and ask questions about them, etc. For the record, he was in the Signals Battalion in Wiking, escaped Cherkassy, etc. Anyway, we asked him about sniper rifles once, and he didn't really know much about them. We showed him a ZF41- he laughed, and said (paraphased) "This is no sniper rifle. This is the rifle you give to the worst shot in the squad so at least in a pinch he can be somewhat useful". Even signals guys didn't consider them snipers! I know you guys didn't call it a sniper, I just think of him saying that every time I look at my ZF41 rifle.

johnmac
12-21-2011, 11:21 AM
I've told this story before, but this pics reminds me of it. I knew an SS Wiking member, and years ago (he's still alive) my reenactment group would meet with him once a year and talk about WW2. We would bring items to show him and ask questions about them, etc. For the record, he was in the Signals Battalion in Wiking, escaped Cherkassy, etc. Anyway, we asked him about sniper rifles once, and he didn't really know much about them. We showed him a ZF41- he laughed, and said (paraphased) "This is no sniper rifle. This is the rifle you give to the worst shot in the squad so at least in a pinch he can be somewhat useful". Even signals guys didn't consider them snipers! I know you guys didn't call it a sniper, I just think of him saying that every time I look at my ZF41 rifle.

Thank you! I cant tell you how many "heated discussions" i have gotten into over my zf rig. lots of folks try to explain to me, "well it has optics so it a sniper"... i have gotten to the point where i just smile and agree to save face... ha...

RyanE
12-21-2011, 11:37 AM
Thank you! I cant tell you how many "heated discussions" i have gotten into over my zf rig. lots of folks try to explain to me, "well it has optics so it a sniper"... i have gotten to the point where i just smile and agree to save face... ha...

I cannot remember exactly where I read this, but I think the book Sturmgewehr! cites an order from the OKW to the Armees/Divisions to stop reporting ZF41 as snipers and to report them as simple carbines. The German army didn't even consider the ZF41 a sniper. I'll see if I can find the quote this evening...

Edit: Oh, and cool pic Hambone. :thumbsup:

BSW 1937
12-21-2011, 11:40 AM
Thank you! I cant tell you how many "heated discussions" i have gotten into over my zf rig. lots of folks try to explain to me, "well it has optics so it a sniper"... i have gotten to the point where i just smile and agree to save face... ha...

Someone who tells you a k98k with a ZF41 is a sniper rifle has never tried to see a target through this scope.

Hambone
12-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Tks guys. One sees them used quite a bit in period combat photographs. They were a "sharpshooter" rifle, much like our DMR concept, to provide more accurate sharpshooting at the local unit level. The "scout" concept, i.e. a forward mounted low power scope, gained a great deal of popularity and the Germans were ahead of their time. The problem is the "scout" rifle is not a "sniper rifle" and was not intended to be. For what it is, a 1.5x German post reticle, local sharpshooting rifle (out to 300m) it worked OK, and a little better than open sights. Certainly it wasn't much worse than the M1903A4. But it wasn't a "sniper" and did not compare to 3x, 4x, and 6x Zf.39s, No.4 Mk.I(T)s, or even Soviet M.91/30 PUs. Different purpose and use. It's almost like my little HP DMZ 11" screen netbook; it gets bad reviews because it is rated with NOTEbook PCs when it really is a badass netbook ;)

As for the byf 45 Zf.41, they were clearly and absolutely made at the factory. The question is whether they left with matching optics or whether this was MO's use of components to finish rifles. If the latter, why was the stock cut out to take a scope mount? Then again, does anyone have access to pics of an original byf 45 Zf.41 rig with matching mount?

Winchester Cowboy
12-21-2011, 01:04 PM
Cool pic and a cool rifle to have in the collection. :thumbsup:

johnmac
12-21-2011, 01:39 PM
I cannot remember exactly where I read this, but I think the book Sturmgewehr! cites an order from the OKW to the Armees/Divisions to stop reporting ZF41 as snipers and to report them as simple carbines. The German army didn't even consider the ZF41 a sniper. I'll see if I can find the quote this evening...

Edit: Oh, and cool pic Hambone. :thumbsup:

Its in BBOTW. I have read this, and you are correct.

johnmac
12-21-2011, 02:08 PM
Sorry my mistake its in BBOTW 2 Sniper Variations on page 98 at the bottom july 26, 1944 the k98 zf41 was downgraded to the status of ordinary carbine.