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Anybody have any late Oberspree WW1 rifles?

mrfarb

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
If someone has any late Oberspree/DWM rifles I'd like to see a few photos, namely serial numbers and right receiver inspections. Actually, any and all DWM or Oberspree rifles would be great, especially late WW1. Even if imported, sporterized, etc, any info would be great.
 
Yes, very helpful. Thanks! I need more late Oberspree/DWM if anyone has them.
 
Hello farb,

did you see my DWM 1918 2042?? I posted pics before and can again?? i also have these oberspree and DWM rifles. my gew98 is very tiny and stopped collecting since simson has a great handle on this area should do a 2 book deal with all info he's collected Imperial Gewehr98/98a 1898-1918 and the Gewehr 98/98m/98a/98b Reichswehr 1919-1932 : ) . this way with your 3 book we would ALMOST know everything mauser98 from 1898-1945. the last book some one need to do is a post war book "Mauser Post Reich" let me know if you need any of them as i said not much i have available. also i consider 1917/18 late if you need earlier let me know like 1916,

Kornbush 1917 serK1537
Kornbush 1917 serN500
Kornbush 1917 serN2877
Kornbush 1917 serN6884

DWM 1917 serV3292
DWM 1918 ser3125
DWM 1918 ser5191
DWM 1918 ser6704

later
vaughn
 
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Mike, a brand new 1918 Oberspree just popped up since we spoke last on this, I emailed the owner to see if he can post up pictures. It has the fireproof in the earlier fashion (the typical Imperial method), along the bottom of the barrel, and is an "o" block.

It breaks with most of the 1918 Oberspree's in this regard, having the fireproof placement under the barrel (rather than next to the barrel serial). It has been upgraded but it has the original barrel.

I will second Mike's research request, we seriously need 1918 dated Gew.98's, preferably with their original barrels to be reported. DWM and Oberspree are most important due to the connection with the "S28" Kar.98b.
 
Trying to help Mike where I can on the Kar.98b, and Simson-BSW, but he already has a lot of help, and I am not sure who is getting the better of the deal on the information exchange!

Took me 10 years to gather what he has in a matter of a few months, or maybe a year.

vaughn99 said:
Hello farb,

did you see my DWM 1918 2042?? I posted pics before and can again?? i also have these oberspree and DWM rifles. my gew98 is very tiny and stopped collecting since simson has a great handle on this area should do a 2 book deal with all info he's collected Imperial Gewehr98/98a 1898-1918 and the Gewehr 98/98m/98a/98b Reichswehr 1919-1932 : ) . this way with your 3 book we would ALMOST know everything mauser98 from 1898-1945. the last book some one need to do is a post war book "Mauser Post Reich" let me know if you need any of them as i said not much i have available. also i consider 1917/18 late if you need earlier let me know like 1916,

Kornbush 1917 serK1537
Kornbush 1917 serN500
Kornbush 1917 serN2877
Kornbush 1917 serN6884

DWM 1917 serV3292
DWM 1918 ser3125
DWM 1918 ser5191
DWM 1918 ser6704

later
vaughn
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Vaughn, I can use them- as SimsonSuhl says, any late WW1 Gew.98 rifle would be useful.

SimsonSuhl, give yourself a lot of credit here! Your depth and understanding of the WW1, Reichswehr era is deeper than the ocean. Without your perspective I would be lost! Can't wait to get the info from that DWM!

Mike
 
Oh, I have a high regard for my opinion, as you know, just saying I am surprised by how much you have accumulated all on your own, in such a short period. While all the material is excellent, some of it is exceptional! I still haven't integrated it all into my database, but it essentially doubles what I have.

Interestingly, while filing this new rifle, I noticed a slight trend, and while I had noticed it before something occurred to me in regards to the S28. There was always odd things about these late 1918-1919 Oberspree's and DWM rifles, but especially the Oberspree rifles.

Specifically, note that the ranges of the "normal" 1918 Oberspree's are all late, o-r ranges, none earlier, and I just assumed this is because Oberspree just didn't rollover from 1917-1918 serial ranges, they stop around the "o" block in 1917 and 1918 the normal ones pick up here. No "normal" 1918 Oberspree is known before the "o" block (some "n" are reported but they are actually "p" blocks).

Now of course we have the no-blocks or the 1st block of rifles, including that 2667. These all have the square "W" Bruce recently connected to DWM, the r/s acceptance, similar RR acceptance patterns. A few 1917 & 1919 WOK are known with these same characteristics, I call these rifles Gew.98's with S28 traits. I think these were made later, around the time they made the 1919 dated Oberspree rifles, and these are the origins of the S28 Kar.98b, at least the parts originate from this production.

We have already discussed my opinion on the following events, how these S28 trait rifles led to the actual S28 Kar98b, but the trick is still to find out where, and by whom, they were assembled. We can all guess, and unless someone finds something conclusive, that is all it is, guessing, - not finding something is not the same as finding something - but I have faith you will find that connection!

mrfarb said:
Vaughn, I can use them- as SimsonSuhl says, any late WW1 Gew.98 rifle would be useful.

SimsonSuhl, give yourself a lot of credit here! Your depth and understanding of the WW1, Reichswehr era is deeper than the ocean. Without your perspective I would be lost! Can't wait to get the info from that DWM!

Mike
Click to expand...
 
I should clarify this statement, while we know ranges and have receiver shots of 1918 Oberspree rifles, we do not have a lot of barrel and component data. More than anything we need barrel data, most importantly the serial and how the barrel is fireproofed. (whether under the barrel as is typical for Imperial Gew.98's or next to the barrel serial, which is generally a interwar trait).

More than half of the 1918 Oberspree rifles known are receiver shots, reworks, or just reports. We need datasheets or pictures of complete rifles. Of course any 1917-1919 dated rifle, or S28, or any Kar.98b would be very helpful also.

SimsonSuhl said:
It breaks with most of the 1918 Oberspree's in this regard, having the fireproof placement under the barrel (rather than next to the barrel serial). It has been upgraded but it has the original barrel.
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Hello! SimsonSuhl has asked me to post some photos on my recently acquired 1918 Oberspree, it is the least I could do, as he went over this rifle and told me everything about it. Thank you for taking the time to I.D. this one for me.

Nice looking rifle no rust or pitting but other than the barrel and receiver no other parts match. See photos:
 

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Welcome Mike, glad you took the time to do more images!

This rifle is very important, imo, because it is one of the few 1918 Oberspree rifles documented, that follow earlier trends (f/p under the barrel and with a suffix, and lacks some of the S28 traits) and this is the weakest part of our trends study regarding the S28. We simply do not have many details on the barrels, and you will note that this barrel, and right receiver is of an earlier pattern, not all that similar to the S28 Kar.98b.

It is the later, no suffix 1918 Oberspree, the 1919 Oberspree, and some 1918 DWM that have the S28 acceptance patterns. What would help tremendously is finding more 1918 Oberspree & DWM rifles to examine, - or find the Jon Speed of DWM!

The events of 1918-1924 at DWM, in Berlin, would be a fascinating story all on its own, all the strikes, riots, unrest, the headquarters and main operation of the IAMCC, how DWM weathered these events would make a fascinating story. The strikes of 1917 made world news, DWM even being mentioned, but surprisingly little was said during the latter strikes and unrest, which was far more brutal. Probably because by 1920 DWM wasn't very important, comparatively to other events. The Loewe-DWM anniversary books hardly mention Oberspree after the war, just being leased out..
 
SimsonSuhl said:
Welcome Mike, glad you took the time to do more images!QUOTE]

So am I! You are a find. This is like entering graduate school at the Unversity of Mauser!

The depth of your studies are astounding! Thanks for inviting me to the forum. This is the first GEW98 in my collection, I was trying to find a Danzig representation for personal reasons, but this Oberspree came up, my friend said it was quite a rare maker, so I purchased it. I never expected to ever see such intriquite details you fellas can come with. How fascinating! And thank you again. I'm going to go find another one!
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I agree, a great spirit. There is so much to learn, and sadly a lot of WW1 rifles are overlooked by collectors, at least in detail.
 
1915 Oberspree

Not a late rifle, but this is my only Oberspree. Bolt renumbered on ball. JL
 

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That is so sad; that you are stuck with such a scarce rifle... this is actually the highest known 1915 WOK, and a wonderful report! (perfect angles too)

Pretty nice rifle from the looks of it, and not many 1915 WOK are around, especially in this condition. Since 1999, I have recorded only 9 1915's and 4 of them are sporterized.

jlj said:
Not a late rifle, but this is my only Oberspree. Bolt renumbered on ball. JL
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Kornbusch 1917 n (N) 500

here you go.
 

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