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View Full Version : Sniper Solbuch: genuine or fake



Xavier
12-29-2011, 02:12 PM
Hi everyone

what do you think about that sniper soldbuch ? sold as an originaml WW2 one ?

http://militaria39-45.com/achat/produit_details.php?id=6538

regards

Xavier

Peter U
12-30-2011, 04:27 PM
Hi everyone

what do you think about that sniper soldbuch ? sold as an originaml WW2 one ?

http://militaria39-45.com/achat/produit_details.php?id=6538

regards

Xavier

The entries on the pages that are shown are original.
Looks to be a nice eastern front Soldbuch.


P

Hambone
12-30-2011, 05:34 PM
There has also been about zero to one or two times in my life that I've ever seen a "sniper patch" and entertained even the idea that it may be original. That one I like, though I can't confirm it original.

Winchester Cowboy
12-30-2011, 05:48 PM
What would you look for in a German paper forgery?

If they truly were faking German Documents like in the "Great Escape Movie", where do you begin as a collector? Stamps? Handwriting? Inconsistancies? Paper?

Some of the US Capture Papers are straight forward with obvious mistakes.

Xavier
12-31-2011, 03:42 AM
HEllo
My concern is about the six digit number written about the scope number. I tought the scope number used by german during ww2 were five digit numbers not six ???
Regards

Peter U
12-31-2011, 06:52 AM
HEllo
My concern is about the six digit number written about the scope number. I tought the scope number used by german during ww2 were five digit numbers not six ???
Regards

Hello Xavier,

I have no knowledge about scope entries but that makes me feel comfortable is that the same red ink that is used to cross out his scope issue entry is also used on the previous page to cross out another lot less intresting entry.
That red ink is standard and can be seen in lots of Soldbucher.
He also could have been issued a foreign scope.
If you want to be absolutely 100% sure about a sniper Soldbuch, you have to get the Soldbuch from the veteran personally I guess.
Like I said already, from what I can see on the images it looks good.


Cheers,
Peter

Peter U
12-31-2011, 07:16 AM
What would you look for in a German paper forgery?

If they truly were faking German Documents like in the "Great Escape Movie", where do you begin as a collector? Stamps? Handwriting? Inconsistancies? Paper?

Some of the US Capture Papers are straight forward with obvious mistakes.

Hi Winchester Cowboy,

In the case of Soldbucher:
There are compleet fake Soldbucher on the market, they are made for reenactors and although they are artifically aged they are always clearly look like fakes if you compare them to an original wartime example.
Forged Soldbucher are usually original examples that have been messed with.
A soldbuch was an offical ID booklet and a soldier that messed with it, for example by adding a medal or some extra leave, always ended up in a military prison and then in a penal unit.
The #1 problem with Soldbucher are the pictures, Soldbucher with pictures are way more valuable then those without a picture in them, so for dodgy dealers it is intresting to add a picture to a Soldbuch that had no picture in it or had his picture ripped out.
Some tips to check if the picture is correct:
- Pictures came in to Soldbucher at the end of 1943, early 44, all Soldbucher that ended before late '43 should never have a picture in them.
- Pictures are always stamped.
- In most cases the picture has the handwritten name of the soldier on it or just underneeth it, check out the handwritting, the soldier always signed his own name on page 2.
- Check the picture, does the uniform and rank match; also you can see a physical decribtion of the soldier on page 2, if for example it is written down that he has black hair, the fellow on the pic should have black hair.
- Rusted stapples aren't a guarantee!!!!
Problem #2, fake medal entries.
A bit more difficult to check, first check if it is possible if it is rather likely that the medals could be given to the soldier, for example an ISA, wound badges and EK's are normal awards for infantry soldiers but not for logistic personel.
Check the stamps and the signatures, usually the CO that signs for the medals also signs the leave page and those should match.
Problem #3, fake unit transfers.
Be careful if a soldier from a dull logistic unit ends up in a wellknown combat unit.
The German administration added control stamps in the Soldbuch, from 1943 onwards every soldier Soldbuch was checked at least once a year; the signature of the CO that signs the security check usually can be found on other pages also.

To sum it up Soldbucher are ID booklets and they are forged but it isn't easy for example their aren't many people, not even native Germans, that still can write in Sütterlin script.
Amongst collectors of Soldbucher information on fake stamps is passed around.
And the best test is always to compare dodgy examples with original pieces, difficult to describe but if you place them next to eachother the dodgy/forged Soldbuch entries look much more visible then if you have nothing to compare them with.


I hope this helps.
Btw Soldbuch and Wehrpaß collecting is still one of the safest sub divisions of 3R collecting! Their are rules and regulations and their are not many anomalies or room for interpretation of those rules and regulations.
In document their is no BS like "Flying circus" camo and unknown makers.


Cheers,
Peter

Winchester Cowboy
12-31-2011, 10:42 AM
Thank you Peter for the reply.

ditch68
12-31-2011, 11:54 AM
Great Soldbuch, I would love to have one like that, collecting Eastern Front memoribalia.

Peter, as always, thanks for sharing your very impressive knowledge with us.

Craig, I also agree on the patch, and the fact that I can count on one finger the number I have seen which I believed were original.

Jeff

Mr Haney
12-31-2011, 12:19 PM
Hi
I have a complete soldiers papers medals every thing!!! He was in the army Heer, his name is Heinz Weiss. It is some like the WW11 Soldbuch.
I willtake alot of pictures if you would like to see them
Regards
Bob

mauser202
01-02-2012, 10:57 PM
Thanks for the lesson Peter, very informative!

BSW 1937
01-03-2012, 03:12 AM
HEllo
My concern is about the six digit number written about the scope number. I tought the scope number used by german during ww2 were five digit numbers not six ???
Regards

Bonjour Xavier,

If you look at this thread (http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?417-Sniper-Soldbuch), you will see that BLC (Zeiss) scope could have 6 digit serial numbers.

Xavier
01-03-2012, 05:12 AM
Hi
I was talking abour the rifle serial number, not the scope number.
sorry
Xavier

vintagescope
01-03-2012, 07:01 AM
But not in 102 000 serial range ......
The only scope on this serial range is CXN zf41 ....