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Erfurt 1917 find and value

discee

Member
I was given an erfurt 8mm about 14 yrs ago and put it in the back of my gun cabinet. I pulled it out recently and have been going over it in more detail as I was cleaning it. Noticed every part has the same numbers, even the set screws. It is a Kar 98, SN 4503 stamped on the action, bolt, rear underside of stock, butt plate, metal rings around the stock, front site, rear site, plates on bottom below ammo load area, the set screws, and the lever to pull out so you can get the bolt out. The gun also has a lead chain with a slotted end to drop down the barrel for cleaning. Does not have the sling or a bayonet. Has the bayonet mount though. There are some crown stampings around the receiver or action. There is a, S.Ar.III 236, stamped on the top of the butt plate. What could this gun be worth and is the cleaning chain that came with it part of the gun package? Any comments on what I may have would be appreciated. The gun was given to me from the family of my neighbor who passed away in 97'. He was 91 when he passed and at one time his brother lived him a long time ago. I remember him telling me that his brother was in one of the wars so it may have been his gun.
 
Bolt blued?
S.Ar. = (Prussian) Schutzpolizei, Arnsberg district; in other words, after WWI it ended up in Police hands.
 
Welcome, Has the serial letters underneath this "4503"? Has the receiver "1920" across the top? Is the bolt, follower, or buttplate blued? Does the follower stop (block) the bolt on empty?

As CB stated the rifle was used by the German police in the interwar period, so it stayed in German hands through WWII and if you neighbor brought it back it would have been in WWII. Value is determined by condition, generally interwar-nazi era reworks of the Kar98a are worth less than Imperial era rifles with no signs of reworking. That said, police markings are good, they have a following, and much depends on condition.

Unless it is exceptional, $400-1000, perhaps more, everything depends on condition. I have paid as little as $400 for decent interwar reworks, and upwards of $800-1000 for others with unit markings, fully matching and attractive you could get more, possibly, depending on how and where it is sold.

I was given an erfurt 8mm about 14 yrs ago and put it in the back of my gun cabinet. I pulled it out recently and have been going over it in more detail as I was cleaning it. Noticed every part has the same numbers, even the set screws. It is a Kar 98, SN 4503 stamped on the action, bolt, rear underside of stock, butt plate, metal rings around the stock, front site, rear site, plates on bottom below ammo load area, the set screws, and the lever to pull out so you can get the bolt out. The gun also has a lead chain with a slotted end to drop down the barrel for cleaning. Does not have the sling or a bayonet. Has the bayonet mount though. There are some crown stampings around the receiver or action. There is a, S.Ar.III 236, stamped on the top of the butt plate. What could this gun be worth and is the cleaning chain that came with it part of the gun package? Any comments on what I may have would be appreciated. The gun was given to me from the family of my neighbor who passed away in 97'. He was 91 when he passed and at one time his brother lived him a long time ago. I remember him telling me that his brother was in one of the wars so it may have been his gun.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by serial # under 4503. Thought 4503 was the serial #. The follower does stop the bolt on empty. It's kinda cool knowing it ended up as a police weapon. here are some pics of the weapon. Is the cleaning chain in the pic something that would have been issued with the gun?
 

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That's a nice looking gun..

Your hand guard is cracked so be very careful if you decide to take the gun apart...

I think Paul is looking for the letters under the SN on the receiver. They are called letter blocks. They are part of the SN.

The chain was WW2 issue. Look up RG34 in the picture sticky in the WW2 K98 section..

..
 
Yes, I agree very attractive. Rework of course, but looks period most probably. Typically they are often re-blued, like this rifle, police sometimes have blued buttplates, and usually the follower is blued and notched to stop the bolt when empty.

The letters under the serial are important, because they tell you how late the rifle is, your pictures aren't super duper but you can tell there is a suffix, from the bolt possibly "gg" or "qq", either are possible, as 1917 Erfurt was the highest Modell98 maker-year up until the nazi era. This enormous number isn't even all that close to the end, as they are known to the "v v" blocks, well into them.

Can you tell us if the follower matches and is blued? Also an image of the right receiver would be nice, as would a clear picture of the suffix, think it is "qq" but hard to say for sure. The full serial will only be on the receiver, barrel and bolt, and during reworks sometimes they do not include the suffix on replacement parts. This rifle was extensively reworked, as many police rifles are, I suspect they got used a lot in some locales.

Are there any markings on the side of the buttstock, or the wrist? If you are especially adventurous, you might take off the handguard and see if it is a re-barrel, some are PTV marked and could help the value tremendously, - especially if we can ever connect them to the S28. I think there is at least a loose connection due to the fact the barrel coding is similar, they often have the Oberspree markings and while the S28's do not have DWM e/66 waffenamts, the PTV's often do... Another connection to DWM.

No worries if not though, so far almost all "Kar.98a" PTV's are property marked, yours isn't so it is a long shot anyway.
 

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