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Scarce Reworked Gew98 with Lange Sight

bruce98k

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Found this in the work for chapter 3. Pretty cool.
 

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Bob Jensen's rifle, or was, neat rifle but I think it was Czech interwar rather than German, possibly one of the IHAG brokered rifles. I have recorded several of these, and while nothing is certain about these, I think these are Czech and the marking of the receiver is some form of early acceptance.

Of course it isn't like the available data (rifle details) are overwhelming on these, but so far none seem to have interwar (pre-1938) German features. Look up Mark Wieringa's KCN article September 1994, that one and 3 others are known that have these markings and odd features, not typical of interwar German service.

Found this in the work for chapter 3. Pretty cool.
 
'Interwar'

Seems that this rifle has multiple features of period German rework, including
the typical scrubbed and renumbered bolt assembly, the added (appended)
digits to the front bands.

The stock has a Nazi eagle stamped on the rear section along with an
updated (refreshed) serial number.

Having the rifle in hand, I certainly did not get the impression of any
Czech modification, no added Lion proofs, etc.

Mark and I can agree to disagree on this one.

I will endeavor to get that article and review what Mark wrote.

I hesitated to bring 'three' way rifles into this chapter but may have to include a short blurb.

As in this potential example and the G98 Imperial German/Polish/Nazi German examples (albeit after 1939 though).
 
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Is the feeling that the numbers on the left side indicate Czech acceptance? I'm not sure I would buy that on the rifle I have with the same type of numbers on it. It's a DWM receiver reworked into a Luftamt rifle during the Nazi era for sure. The serial number is scrubbed on the receiver,and it seems the 3 digits would have been taken off at the same time as the serial during the rebuild.

Either way, that rifle Bruce posted has the matching Lange sight and Nazi depot inspection, meaning at the very least it went through a Nazi depot without updating the rear sight. I think you should put it in just because of that.

Pic of my Luftamt Gew98 (granted basically a barreled action, one of Ambrose Selkers guns).

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I said, "think", as in opinion, and I am not trying to sell anything...

Second the marking on the receiver isn't numbers, it is an "S" followed by a funky Lion, much like seen on some of the 98/22 and early Czech rifles. It isn't the same of course, but similar enough to them, and of course the IHAG rifles would be very early rifles, and probably not use the exact acceptance pattern. The 98/22 "Lion" and the vz23 "Lions" are different as well, the "Lion" on these is also inside of a square, while many of the other Czech "Lions" are in a circle.

Lastly, I didn't say Mark Wieringa associated them in 1994 with Czech rifles; rather his article discusses a rifle similar to this one, not re-blued, and shows the characters on his rifle, which are similar to others I have recorded. I have other pictures of this rifle, from Bob, and the marking is the same, as it is on a 98a I will pop up pictures of. The stock (BJ rifle) also has a nazi acceptance, probably HZa, and matching apparently.

Also I didn't say this rifle didn't go through a German rework, I am saying nothing I have seen on these suggest a rework before 1938, where Germany collected all Czech stores and shipped them to Germany, where this rifle obviously got reworked. Of course I do not have a lot of pictures of this rifle, and it might have pre-1938 signs of rework (Su parts nor S/42k - S42G parts are not such signs). Mark's rifle from 1994 seemingly didn't have reworking, as the receiver was still bright, - from recollection.

Anyway, it is only my opinion, not Mark's, and no one is obliged to share my opinion as it is only based upon a handful of examples, none of which are especially well documented.
 

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Here is a DWM, that shows the marking clearer, the exact same marking BJ rifle has, it too went through a depot in WWII
 

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Ahh, I see. His markings were not clear enough to note that it had a lion. I agree, if it has a lion proof then it's some type of Czech rework. I've never seen one, thanks for the education! I would bet this one was repatriated after the Anschluss.
 
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Paul thanks for the clarification. If that goop would not have occluded the marking perhaps my
reading of that would have been different.

I will revise the text to add the Czech acceptance.

The fact remains that we have a Gew98 that went through a German rework process and still has the
Lange sight.

I likely after this example, even though later will add an example of a Polish acceptance mark as well.

Thank goodness for Paul sitting in the coachs box!
 
Like I said it is only my opinion, and Czech rifles are not in my interest generally, though I do have a database for all the variations. The "Lion" is not a match, exactly, for any other Czech rifle but it has similarities and the Czech Lion's vary in style.

In time we will find out if my opinion is supported or disproved, we need to see another rifle that hasn't been reworked, or if it is German interwar, one with signs of pre-1938 work done. I am open to other possibilities, especially as the vz98 types, in large part, were sold to Turkey, China, & the Yugo's... but the retention of the Lange r/s, the similarity of markings, how they are applied, "seem" Czech to me, but too few have been recorded or documented to be sure of anything. (but I really doubt that marking is "German", something is out of place at a minimum)
 
Just to complicate things, I've got a G98 Amberg 1917 EWB with original Lange sight and showing no evidence of reworkingt by anybody after 1917 except for the fact that the front sight base is slotted for a hood.
 
Yes, it was on the disc, and I have added it to my files. I processed much of the data, BC, RR trends etc.. but this one was out of place with other rifles I was working on.

That disc has a lot of good information on it, just too large for my old pc!
 
Sounds interesting, I have owned EWB that were still in Imperial trim, though none with slotted f/s.

Here are a couple pics Wolfgang sent me- cool pics that I wish we had snagged for Mike & Bruce's book:

http://cdn01.trixum.de/upload2/N/9/N9aJCjdURcAq132587067948P5475.jpg

http://cdn02.trixum.de/upload2/w/F/wFU5ye2jDRZY132587068384P5475.jpg



Just to complicate things, I've got a G98 Amberg 1917 EWB with original Lange sight and showing no evidence of reworkingt by anybody after 1917 except for the fact that the front sight base is slotted for a hood.
 
The marking in question is definitely Czech, but does not necessarily denote Czech rework. The S (lion) # markings denoted military districts. I'll have to look up what the 6th district was when I get home. There were numerous variations of the stamp and they changed significantly over time. Most of the very early markings differ significantly from thouse found on later Model 98/22 and VZ.24 rifles. I collected Steyr M95's for about 15 years and this was a very common property marking found on M95's, but it is not surprising to see the marking on a reparations Gew.98. You can occasionally find the marking on Ruby, Steyr, and Rast & Gasser pistols as well.
 
Welcome to the forum, we look forward to what you can find regarding this topic.

Czechoslovakia didn't get reparations from Germany, they were never occupied or a "victim of German aggression" as they were part of A-H during the war. The only countries that received actual reparations were Britain, France and Belgium, though the Serbs did get compensated for the machinery destroyed and plundered by Germany, and Poland receiver the rifle making machinery from Danzig and any facilities (including contents in depots and barracks, which were numerous) in the areas Germany was forced to cede to Poland.

The Czechs bought the German rifles they obtained in interwar period, machinery from Mauser and a rifle deal through IHAG, very probably other exchanges with countries that had stores of German rifles after the war. Several countries, like Poland, did some wheeling & dealing in the interwar period to try and standardize their rifle inventory.

The marking in question is definitely Czech, but does not necessarily denote Czech rework. The S (lion) # markings denoted military districts. I'll have to look up what the 6th district was when I get home. There were numerous variations of the stamp and they changed significantly over time. Most of the very early markings differ significantly from thouse found on later Model 98/22 and VZ.24 rifles. I collected Steyr M95's for about 15 years and this was a very common property marking found on M95's, but it is not surprising to see the marking on a reparations Gew.98. You can occasionally find the marking on Ruby, Steyr, and Rast & Gasser pistols as well.
 
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Updated page

Here is the updated page for the aforementioned rifle.

B.
 

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Are you asking who John Wall is?

He is probably one of the most knowledgeable collectors on the pre-1919 period, widely regarded as an "expert" on German commercial contract production, Ludwig Loewe (DWM), and early German rifle development. He is one of the best researchers in the hobby and his opinions are as good as facts within his expertise.

Jonh Wall?
 

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