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Hambone
04-03-2010, 11:13 AM
Very interesting Soldbuch that sold for big bucks. Shows sniper issue items, etc.

Hambone
04-03-2010, 11:15 AM
more sniper soldbuch

Hambone
04-03-2010, 11:15 AM
and more sniper soldbuch

Bigdibbs88
04-03-2010, 11:56 AM
WOW is that patch original?!

With all these cool sniper accessories, I have to ask HB, i've never seen you post a k98 sniper other than your zf-41. Do you have any k98 snipers?

CMHouchins
04-03-2010, 12:03 PM
Very nice !!

miles136
04-03-2010, 12:57 PM
Ive got one for a soldier issued a scoped K43

Ill put it in the GK section

nice piece

Hambone
04-03-2010, 01:36 PM
Bigd, I'm not a sniper collector. I do save good info when I find it and I find snipers fascinating and interesting. I have representative examples for all combatants in WW2, just no longer have any German beyond my Zf.41 and Zf.4, both depicted here. I collect grunt stuff and once I start seeing a price tag up around five digits I start thinking cyclic rate of 450 or better ;)

JM, that would be great, love to see it. This SB is not mine BTW.

Bigdibbs88
04-03-2010, 02:37 PM
HB- I hear ya. I love sniper rifles, IMHO theres almost no rifle you can aspire to own that is better than an original scoped K98- the absolute pinnacle of bolt action rifles IMO. However, I cant afford 10k plus, and when i see a price like that my mind inevitably starts thinking what else i could have for that price... 9 or 10 matching k98s, 20 bolt mismatches, full auto mp40, 3 G43's, 5 or 6 lugers, nice used car, small house (lol), you get the idea...

vintagescope
11-30-2010, 04:32 AM
It's a problem with this soldbuch ...
336638 is not correct serial number for ZF39 .

Dave Roberts
11-30-2010, 07:39 PM
It's a problem with this soldbuch ...
336638 is not correct serial number for ZF39 .

I disagree , You are incorrect and should look Very Closely at the Ser# Range for ZF39
Scopes as this Ser# is Correct and falls into the Zeiss Zielvier blc Coded Scopes . The blc Coded Scopes in fact had a Six Digit Ser#, and this No# falls wright into that Serial Range . And If I had to give an opinion at first glance that is what my responce would be a blc Coded Zeiss Zielvier . If You have Robert Spielauers Sniper Book check in LT Section there is a blc Coded Zeiss Pictured there .Best Regards

Valleysniper
12-01-2010, 04:09 PM
I disagree , You are incorrect and should look Very Closely at the Ser# Range for ZF39
Scopes as this Ser# is Correct and falls into the Zeiss Zielvier blc Coded Scopes . The blc Coded Scopes in fact had a Six Digit Ser#, and this No# falls wright into that Serial Range . And If I had to give an opinion at first glance that is what my responce would be a blc Coded Zeiss Zielvier . If You have Robert Spielauers Sniper Book check in LT Section there is a blc Coded Zeiss Pictured there .Best Regards

Dave, do you know of an original unquestionable blc marked Zielvier in 336XXX serial number range then? Most I have seen including the fakes that certain web site seems to create about every couple of months seem to be in 339XXX range. But I'm always willing to learn something new.

Amberg
12-02-2010, 02:32 PM
Hello,
have to disagree with Dave (Sorry my friend)!
Soldbuch says "Karabiner Halbautom." => semi auto rifle. Everything else is selfexplaining. NO blc on such a rifle.
"rln" 4x scope?? Just a thought.
Wolf

Dave Roberts
12-03-2010, 12:32 AM
Hello,
have to disagree with Dave (Sorry my friend)!
Soldbuch says "Karabiner Halbautom." => semi auto rifle. Everything else is selfexplaining. NO blc on such a rifle.
"rln" 4x scope?? Just a thought.
Wolf
Hello My Friend Wolf
I think You misunderstand the Question I am Answering . Vintagescope was saying that Ser#336638 is not Correct for a ZF39 Scope Serial Number . Which in fact the only Scope that has a Six Digit Serial Number for a K98 is the blc Coded Zeiss Zielvier . This is what I am pointing out .I was only trying to Point out to Vintage Scope that there is in fact a Scope that has Six Digit Serial Numbering. I hope this clarifies what I am Explaining I do realize that there would be no blc Scope on a Semi Auto Rifle . About time a Collector of Your Caliber comes and joins us, I was wondering when You would get here . What about Thomas .He would also be a great addition to the Forum .Very Best Regards.

Dave Roberts
12-03-2010, 12:51 AM
Dave, do you know of an original unquestionable blc marked Zielvier in 336XXX serial number range then? Most I have seen including the fakes that certain web site seems to create about every couple of months seem to be in 339XXX range. But I'm always willing to learn something new.

I can not say if I have or not as I have on seen maybe a total of 4 or 5 blc Scopes that were fore sure Originals and there is one I know of that I need to get the Serial # of . I know of the site in which You mentioned and I refuse to say anymore about them than that
and for sure will not say their name . Its bad enough they do what they do I will not advertise for them by saying their name . I will say be Very cautious when thinking of buying from the Czechs . NOT ALL , but a lot . Best Regards

mrfarb
12-03-2010, 07:48 AM
You see, I would have never paid big bucks as a collector for this soldbuch. When all of the weapons and accountables entry pages are missing and replaced with a piece of paper that says "automatic rifle, scope with case, binoculars with case, flare pistol" I would get nervous. They did add "camoflaged jacket and camoflage hat" on the actual pages, but I would be wary of that entry too. It's too easy to add that kind of stuff- I would think to myself that someone took a soldbuch that was missing pages that was not valuable and made it valuable. I think we call that "humped up" round these parts, but that would be my opinion.

Hambone
12-03-2010, 09:21 AM
This is a good discussion. Go get Peter U from the Militaria forum and get him to review this. He's the SB goto guy. Knows his docs.

mrfarb
12-03-2010, 10:36 AM
I just looked at all of the photos really good, I don't like this soldbuch for anything past the 1942 entries. If you notice, the entries are heavy from 39-42, then nothing until 44. One 43 dated entry in the shots section, much of the 44 entries appear to have similar handwriting to them. Lots of time spent in the Hospital in 44 as well.

It's easy to boost up documents which is why I don't collect exotic documents, but there are real documents out there- PeterU knows how to collect them, I don't. Some of my observations are from my own experience doing Soldbuchs for reenactors(not much pedigree there)- some of these the Stempel doesn't match the unit under the signatures, to me a bad sign perhaps?

Look at the Infantry assault document and you will see what I mean - Gren. Rgt 134 on the stemple, different under the signature. Again, I'm not a document collector, just from my uniformed point of view.

Hambone
12-03-2010, 11:58 AM
If it is bad Peter will disassemble it :thumbsup:

Peter U
12-03-2010, 12:58 PM
Hello guys,

If I had seen this thread before I would have added a reply sooner.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this Soldbuch!
It is an original sniper Soldbuch.


Mfarb, there is an important entry for 1943 and that is the control stamp on page 15.
He was in actif service in 1943, he just wasn't promoted, got any medals or equipment issued to him, so no other entries.
When it comes to the Sturm Abz document, I don't see any problems either.
It was stamped by a clerck of the Grenadier Rgt 184, also a regiment of the 86th Infantry divisions Gruppe.
There is a difference between the 86th ID and the 86th Infantry Divisionsgruppe:
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Divisionsgruppe/DivGruppe86.htm
You'll see that it makes sense, GR167 and GR184 were infact one unit.


Like I said every entry in this Soldbuch is original and that includes the ultra rare sniperbadge entry. The only downside is that this is a Soldbuch that doesn't have a picture of the soldier in it, it never had one so it hasn't been messed with either.


Cheers,
Peter

Valleysniper
12-03-2010, 03:35 PM
One question why does soldbuch entry show Zielfernglas and not Zielfernrohr?

Zielfernrohr = Scope

Zielfernglas = Objective binocular

Doppelfernglas = Double binoculars

Perhaps whoever made entries got optics numbers confused as 336638 could be the serial number of a ddx (Voigtlander) set of 6 x 30 bino's and 47784 could be a dow or ddx ZF4 scope refering to Clause's database. Just a thought?

Peter U
12-03-2010, 03:36 PM
Hambone, can you give me/us an idea for what amount this sold for?

P

Hambone
12-03-2010, 03:41 PM
Peter, I don't remember, but it was pretty hefty. I'll check my links and downloads, I bet I can find it. Thanks for your input on this! The goal of this site is more research and serious info exchange, and I don't know of a better document guy than you on such things :thumbsup:

Peter U
12-03-2010, 04:01 PM
Notice that the weapons page that has been added is made of the same piece of paper as the extra awards page and the extra added leave page.
The stamps and signatures on the awards- and leave page are correct thus the weapons page is correct.

P

mrfarb
12-03-2010, 07:23 PM
Thanks Peter, and shows why I don't collect documents.

Peter U
12-05-2010, 04:23 AM
Thanks Peter, and shows why I don't collect documents.

No worries mfarb, learning to read and more important to interpret documents is something that takes time, the fun thing is that you spend your time being busy with history.
Your never to old to learn it!
But you have to watch out because document and ID booklet collecting is an addiction :-)


Cheers,
Peter

mjones
12-05-2010, 08:28 PM
Peter,

Thanks for the lesson and detail.

Mike