Third Party Press

1934 "Banner" Mauser Serial # 92862

Badger

Badger

Well-known member
It is the "highest" confirmed/known Mauser Banner K in really nice shape and original.

There are at least 3 rifles higher in serial and believed Mauser Banner K's but they are either mismatches or problem rifles.

Really a nice rifle!
 
SimsonSuhl said:
It is the "highest" confirmed/known Mauser Banner K in really nice shape and original.

There are at least 3 rifles higher in serial and believed Mauser Banner K's but they are either mismatches or problem rifles.

Really a nice rifle!
Click to expand...

Thanks Simson ... :)

So, this old girl is a bit of a rarity ? :shocked:

That's a pleasant surprise ... :biggrin:

I always wondered why it didn't have the postal or railway markings on the stock. Is the proper terminology (in collector parlance) for these rifles without the marks, "Banner K"?

I've also never understood why it came with the S/176k marked bayonet, although I must admit, I'm not an edged weapons collector so I haven't got a clue about it.

Anyway, as usual, appreciate the feedback. Capture whatever pics you need for your research.

Regards,
Doug
 
Well there is hardly anything written on the variation, except in a few newsletter articles, however generally collectors call this particular variation the Mauser Bannner K as it has the Mauser Banner and is in the general Kar98k configuration. This rifle is basically comparable to the shortened Kar98b that beat the Mauser Standard-Modell in the 1929 trials (which became the Kar98k) – this was Mausers attempt to supply comparable rifles to those groups or agencies that would desire the military model.

Your rifle is beyond the so-called DRP range, but could have been sold to the Reichspost, or Reichsbahn but impossible to say, as it is unmarked. It is also past the Ch.d.A range but could have been sold to one of the paramilitary groups (SA/SS types).

It is hard to tell for sure, and I did not go into this with my article, as it is such a gray area, - we do not have enough “detailed” information. But it seems the Mauser Banner K is discontinued not long after your rifle was made, and they continued only with the Kar98k and the “export” Standard –Modell which was continued for foreign sales (Germany was desperate for hard currency because of nazi economic policy- I could go into the similarities to the obamanazis but it only raises my blood pressure..)

Anyway, little to nothing good on this subject in English and doubtful there will be anytime soon. Simply put to few detail their rifle adequately, and though it is true to say no one writes books, it is equally true to say too few share data for experienced collectors to be able to write books. I have collected data on the various Kar98k types for well over 10 years and for my article on the DRP Mauser Banner K I was able to rely on only 60 DRP type rifles, give or take half a dozen.

Imagine the clarity that would be possible if we had 1,000 rifles documented in the detail you provided with your rifle?
 
Hello Simson

i have serials
92348 RC No Diamond
94872 VB All Matching No Diamond

unles you have these already
 
Thanks Vaughn, I did not have either of these. Neither had the diamond at the end of the serial? Have one rc in this range w/o too (92948) but most have one?

What is VB? Vet bringback? How are the siderails, typical? You have the BC on either?

vaughn99 said:
Hello Simson

i have serials
92348 RC No Diamond
94872 VB All Matching No Diamond

unles you have these already
Click to expand...
 
SimsonSuhl said:
Imagine the clarity that would be possible if we had 1,000 rifles documented in the detail you provided with your rifle?
Click to expand...

Thanks Simson .. :)

I know what you mean about Obama .. ;) We've suffered through decades of Liberal majority governments up here in Canada that have effectively turned us into a "nanny" state. Free healthcare, free daycare, free dogcare, free welfare, but somebody has to pay for it and it's guys like me who have a 50%+ income tax rate, plus 18% in sales taxes, plus all kinds of user fees and taxes. So, don't get me going either, as this probably isn't the right venue for it. :biggrin:

Anyway, terrific additional background you've given me on my old girl. Appreciate it ...

I love doing these photo montages as I get to hide in the vault and do these to relax and get away from the stresses of real life and business issues. My wife can't understand why I'd spend about 4-6 hours going over every little part and taking hundreds of pics for just one rifle. :p

Glad you find them useful and please don't hesitate to take whatever you need, or reference the albums. Many of these montages have been up for over four years and the site we use is dedicated, so it's going to be on-line for many years to come.

I got really excited about this Banner K being the highest number you had so far in an all correct and validate state. :whoo:

.... until I saw Vaughn's information. :facepalm:

Darn you Vaughn .... :hail:

Regards,
Doug
 
Banner

Great info and presentation by both Badger and Paul.
I will be covering these rifles in detail in Volume 1 and Mauser will be my first chapter and I will
begin April 1 with the Banners and Standard Modells.

Hopefully, Jon Speed can lend some insight into this as well as collector submissions and continured
detailed study.

Badger, I too am a specialized MO collector and really enjoy the posts.
 
Good to know this will be a focus for the new book!

No question Jon Speed will be a tremendous asset to the subject. I hope he can find more on the 1929 trials and the early Standard-Modell especially.. two topics that are very difficult to find information on!


bruce98k said:
Great info and presentation by both Badger and Paul.
I will be covering these rifles in detail in Volume 1 and Mauser will be my first chapter and I will
begin April 1 with the Banners and Standard Modells.

Hopefully, Jon Speed can lend some insight into this as well as collector submissions and continured
detailed study.

Badger, I too am a specialized MO collector and really enjoy the posts.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, I was able to "poach" your data a long while back.. at least on a few rifles like this one. A very useful site as very few go to the extremes of documenting every marking like you do!

Much of it is not necessary I guess, but one never knows?

For a long time we did not understand the value of the barrel code and how it can be useful to date rifles or understand how they were made (sub-contracting patterns – things happened for a reason usually), - or on Imperial rifles the relevance of the right receiver acceptance stamps as many had said the RR acceptance did not follow patterns and varied to much for research value.. well that was incorrect as I have used it to good measure to show Mauser completed Spandau marked receivers, Danzig did as well, and it solved the riddle of "why" the serial ranges for 1917 and 1918 Spandau are so wacky- the serial ranges for some 1917 Spandau rifles are actually MO ranges or Danzig ranges- the two largest mfg of the Gew.98 in 1917 (Spandau had been for years misrepresented because no one considered the RR useful in determining who made the rifle.) In actuality the RR in 1914-1918 is just as useful as 1934-1945, only that it is harder to read unless you have a large database for comparison.

Anyway, just trying to say, the detail you go into might seem excessive now, but in time perhaps it will be useful to a researcher that has a particular focus. (so I hope you continue this "excessive" documenting of your rifles!)

Badger said:
Glad you find them useful and please don't hesitate to take whatever you need, or reference the albums. Many of these montages have been up for over four years and the site we use is dedicated, so it's going to be on-line for many years to come.

I got really excited about this Banner K being the highest number you had so far in an all correct and validate state. :whoo:

.... until I saw Vaughn's information. :facepalm:

Darn you Vaughn .... :hail:

Regards,
Doug
Click to expand...
 
Hello simson,

yes both do not have the Diamond present after the serial. sorry to say no BC for either from the pics i have both are marked on the side rail with MO a/n marking.

later
vaughn
 
Still good information!

Thanks!

vaughn99 said:
Hello simson,

yes both do not have the Diamond present after the serial. sorry to say no BC for either from the pics i have both are marked on the side rail with MO a/n marking.

later
vaughn
Click to expand...
 
SimsonSuhl said:
Anyway, just trying to say, the detail you go into might seem excessive now, but in time perhaps it will be useful to a researcher that has a particular focus. (so I hope you continue this "excessive" documenting of your rifles!)
Click to expand...

Thanks ... will do ... :)

I'm going to start on a 1937 S/42 today .... ;)

BTW, I'm a little confused. :confused:

You asked Vaughn about the diamond being present or not? What does the diamond mean again and why is it important or not?

Regards,
Doug
 
Last edited:
Not sure what it means or the purpose it serves, only that it isn't seen on DRP range rifles (1933-early 1934 to 68k range) but shows up on Ch.d.A and the unmarked Mauser Banner K's from the beginning (all 1934 dated rifles). A very few rifles seem to omit the diamond though and it is unclear why.

It must have a purpose, as it does not show up on the earlier DRP/DR marked rifles, nor the later export B prefix rifles (1935-1937 going by the barrel codes available- the SM was sold as early as 1930/31 for export but so few of these “early” SM have been recorded or documented it is hard to say what is "normal" for them.. most SM that are known are the 1935-37 B prefix SM and they generally do not have the diamond)

Anyway, there are several subtle changes throughout the production of the SM/Mauser BannerK and most can probably be explained by contract requirements, but I have not seen a pattern to explain why they have a diamond at the serial starting in the 70k range.

We do not know if it is important, and it probably isn't, but it is something I track in my database on the SM/Mauser Banner K.


Badger said:
BTW, I'm a little confused.

You asked Vaughn about the diamond being present or not? What does the diamond mean again and why is it important or not?

Regards,
Doug
Click to expand...
 
Banner

The production marking on the later Banners is ambiguous at best with the DP stamp as well as a handful of T prefix guns. I will ask Jon iif he knows anything about each.
 
If anyone could know, Jon Speed would be the place to start!

bruce98k said:
The production marking on the later Banners is ambiguous at best with the DP stamp as well as a handful of T prefix guns. I will ask Jon iif he knows anything about each.
Click to expand...
 
Beauty of a Banner Badger and outstanding detail pics at your site, well done! Pic stickied.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top