G.24(t) dou. 42 K block

[Gerard]

Just arrived today. I don't think this was ever cleaned and the guy I bought it from got it from the vet as-is. Have located a rear band, which was missing and I think the screw for the rear sight is screwed into the cleaning rod? The wood is gorgeous. I am going to break it down, soak it and get rid of the surface rust. Thanks for my friends here who helped with questions I had. Comments welcome.

Gerard

[Gerard]

next set...

[Gerard]

more photos...

[mauser99]

glad I could help you out.. anyway, The screw in the end of the cleaning rod goes into the hole infront of the rear sight !!! I dont know why its stuck in there :facepalm:

Of note : this is another dou42 g24t with numbered parts. This rifle is right out of the closet. I have no doubt now some g24t's have numbered parts. When I posted Radommans late dou24t there was doubt the numbers were original.

Too bad the band is missing as it would of been numbered as well.. Most 24t's are not numbered and its taboo when they are.. So far anyway...

[Gerard]

Wayne, I know this one is correct and untouched. Also, I noticed my trigger guard screws are numbered and most aren't in the pic reference. Are Radomman's tg screws numbered also? Also, Mine doesn't look to have ever had the sight hood. Is that possible?


Gerard

[mauser99]

as h.b. noted: most 24t's show no signs of having a sight protector added.. Its not wrong if it has one or doesnt. As far as im concerned..

Also; its obvious this rifle is an un-touched closet case. Its numbered in the german fashion. Its 100% correct.

[mauser99]

I bumped the other thread so we could compare these two numbered 24t's..

[Gerard]

What I have noticed so far on mine, other than the bolt and receiver standard numbering- Front band, triggerguard, floor plate, all have the full serial, bolt release and tg screws have the last 2 numbers. Circle "Z" marked bayonet lug, front band, safety, rear sight slide. Handguard has a nice e/A80 proof.

-Gerard

[mauser99]

the discussion was that g24t's were not numbered in the german manner.. There are obvious to me examples that buck this trend. This is one of those..

[jack944]

the discussion was that g24t's were not numbered in the german manner.. There are obvious to me examples that buck this trend. This is one of those..

On these types that buck trends I am usually on the side that it is bad...but this one I think is good.. My j block that is pic stickied is the poster boy for un-numbered small part 24t's. This one is one block away and numbered...??? I cannot come up with a reason why, but the rifle is compelling evidence that it was done.

The numbered one that was discussed here previously, I bought to take home and study...I returned it. I still feel it is incorrect per Pisgahs and my observations.

[militarytorch]

Too bad the band is missing as it would of been numbered as well.. Most 24t's are not numbered and its taboo when they are.. So far anyway...

I have a Dou41 a block that is all correct and matching and the front band has a serial number but the rear one doesn't. Go figure :-)


http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?252939-DOU-1941-a-block-G-24%28t%29-All-matching-rifle

[Bob in OHIO]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277373681

[mauser99]

I just found bill grists 24t thread where he mrfarb and one other Posted two j and one g block. none are numbered other than the bolt... So go figure.. I too examined the g42t c block and can find no reason to make me beleive these numbers were applied post war.. The fonts are consistant and they are at least two different sizes. Have you ever taken a number stamp and tried to stamp a band or anything else ? It dont look like any of those stamped numbers on that 'c' block..

[mauser99]

not a fan of the lower band and the buttplate on that one. Then the cleaned stock...and a realized price of 3k yikes !!!
no photo of the upper band. So I can only assume its not numbered...?



QUOTE=Bob in OHIO;33183]http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277373681[/QUOTE]

[RyanE]

I see only 2 possibilities:

1) Added at the unit level by an armorer like the modified vz24s.

2) Added by an importer in the 50s or 60s.

I do not believe these were ever factory applied.

[Gerard]

Perhaps we should start checking and comparing fonts for these numbers. I have a feeling the numbers on mine are period, but have no explanation as to why. Let's wait and see before we call final judgement. I think more research needs to be done.

[mauser99]

if this numbering was done at armourer level or depot lever the fonts would never be the same reguardless.
Its like compairing a posen font to a spandau font.. Not even close.

[Hambone]

I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time trying to make sense of something sold by someone who's peddled a good amount of humped stuff. That particular rifle has had the stock sanded up pretty good, I smell cold blue and the numbers are funky, and it's not numbered like any original dou. 42 I've ever seen. As a result, to me it's worth less than half of what it auctioned for. That's enough for me. Beyond that it's an autopsy on road kill.

[RyanE]

I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time trying to make sense of something sold by someone who's peddled a good amount of humped stuff. That particular rifle has had the stock sanded up pretty good, I smell cold blue and the numbers are funky, and it's not numbered like any original dou. 42 I've ever seen. As a result, to me it's worth less than half of what it auctioned for. That's enough for me. Beyond that it's an autopsy on road kill.

Only less than half? That is remarkably generous of you! :laugh:

But what about Gerard's? Clearly not factory done, but the numbers appear to be applied somewhat professionally with a set of dies that were not purchased at Harbor Freight...

[vaughn99]

Hello,

might be something to think about they might of as i don't have documentation finishing up G24 (t)'s and started running K98 production and with all the extras serials they need to do for the K98 rifle I can see why the last or late k (K) block g24 (t)'s might of be affected to this new production rules of serialing more parts just a thought. seems funny the legit ones seem to be in the k (K) blocks more investigation is needed.

later
vaughn

[mauser99]

I agree on that auction rifle..Not sure why it was brought up. Other than the fact it was a dou42 g42t is the only thing it has in common with what we are trying to disscuss here. There is more than one 24t with period numbered parts. i.m.h.o.




I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time trying to make sense of something sold by someone who's peddled a good amount of humped stuff. That particular rifle has had the stock sanded up pretty good, I smell cold blue and the numbers are funky, and it's not numbered like any original dou. 42 I've ever seen. As a result, to me it's worth less than half of what it auctioned for. That's enough for me. Beyond that it's an autopsy on road kill.

[Bob in OHIO]

Well, I thought another k-block might add to the conversation. Are the TG/FP on both rifles not similiarly and legitimately period sn'ed?


I agree on that auction rifle..Not sure why it was brought up. Other than the fact it was a dou42 g42t is the only thing it has in common with what we are trying to disscuss here. There is more than one 24t with period numbered parts. i.m.h.o.

[Pat]

Gentlemen,
I've been following this thread with interest, but very little experience or first-hand knowledge. Based on the only source I have [Jensen, Robert and Kuck, Peter (ed.), "The dou K98k. Waffenwerke brunn A.G. Povaszka Bystrica" KCN Newsletter January 1991, re-released June 2002], production of the G.24(t) rifles ceased with the 'L' block rifles in mid-1942 prior to production of the 'dou' coded K98k rifles. Does this still reflect the current state of knowledge on these?

Like at least one other member in this thread, I also wonder if the closet bring-back rifle shown above might or might not be an anomaly, or an example of a trend toward the serializing of previously unnumbered parts prior to dedicated K98k production. Does a sufficient sized sample exist to make any assumptions yet?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge,
Pat

[Loewe]

The article is inaccurate on a couple points, one dou/G24t production didn't rollover in 1942, it continued where it left off in 1941, so the production numbers estimated are very high compared to reality. The "no block" 1942 dou are Slovakian contract rifles, and there are no 1942 dou before the "g" block.
Second, I have never seen an "L" block, and the 1856 "L" mentioned is probably in error-typo. BJ who wrote the original article, owns 1856 k (I have the datasheet), and that is probably a typo, unless he owns both 1856 k & 1856 L. (1856 L is also listed in JoeS KCN piece, but I think it was based upon BJ reporting, as many were back then.)

While it is possible dou made it to the "L" block, it hasn't been shown yet, and 3k "k" blocks are the highest reliably reported (about half a dozen early "k" blocks are known, none later and no "L" blocks that I am aware of)

Also 1941 G24t production ends well before the "j" block, the transition is in the "g" block, so that is wrong imo also.

I am not the only one doing trends work on dou or the G24t, MattG, JoeS and I were working on them a few years ago, and Eric probably is also, perhaps others. But unless Eric has seen an "L" block confirmed, I doubt they made it that high. As MarkW once stated, a reported high needs others to support it, preferably in the same range or block, and so far that "L" is very lonely.

[Pat]

Thanks SS, I'll amend my notes and data sheets accordingly. Thanks for sharing!
Pat

[vaughn99]

Hello,

I only have 8 k (K) block G24 (t) Rifles reported. so far at most with a bolt found 4500 k (K) is the highest so far. thats 5500 short of the l (L) block. I also have a small database and others have better observations.


later
vaughn

[Gerard]

Any advice to get the hand guard off? It's not rusted, the band that holds it on is just so tight, it's ridiculous. I don't want to break anything, what is the best way to do this? There is barely anything to push against with the band.

[Hambone]

Gerard, the spring clips are like a "U" and hold onto the top of the barrel. If you remove the bands you will need to need to lift the rear sight leaf with the slider all the way to the top while pushing on the underside, both sides at once, of the handguard at the clip so that it springs loose from the barrel. If the rear sight screw is in there and you aren't paying attention to the rear sight you could crack or damage the handguard. It could crack anyway. There isn't anything under there, like SS markings or diamonds or a treasure map worth digging for. A light wipe of Ballistol on a qtip under there is fine. I'd leave it be.

[Pisgah]

...But unless Eric has seen an "L" block confirmed, I doubt they made it that high. As MarkW once stated, a reported high needs others to support it, preferably in the same range or block, and so far that "L" is very lonely.

I agree with everything Paul wrote. I haven't seen an L block G.24(t) either.

I also agree with Craig's statements regarding the G.24(t) handguard. I wouldn't remove one if it wasn't necessary. The handguard of a G.24(t) is fragile and in laminated form would be particularly hard to replace. One can disassemble the rifle and still leave the handguard on the barrel. Q-tips and CLP with the handguard in place should do the trick.

[Gerard]

There isn't anything under there, like SS markings or diamonds or a treasure map worth digging for . Hambone, if I swap this one day and I find out the guy tells me Goering's treasure cave location was under the handguard....well... anyway, you convinced me, I'm not removing it.

[Hambone]

Hambone, if I swap this one day and I find out the guy tells me Goering's treasure cave location was under the handguard....well... anyway, you convinced me, I'm not removing it.

:biggrin1: You found a great rifle that plenty of folks are looking for. Congrats :thumbsup: