New Info on Rifle 1918 DWM Berlin Gewehr

Went by the gun store to reexamine the rifle in question. Here are the particulars:

DWM Berlin 1918
Serial Number 6210.
Numbers match on all pieces, EXCEPT

The round piece that screws onto the bolt (into which the safety lever is inserted), is numbered 332. Also, the safety lever itself does not look to be the standard item. It appears to be somewhat thinner in terms of the flat blade, ie, there is a gap between the blade and the round piece.

Imperial markings all over it. No Nazi symbols note.
Letter "B" stamped into the stock. There is no sling hole in the stock, but has the bolt takedown ring. Stock is very dark color.

All metal work is blued, including receiver and bolt. Bluing appears to be original, as the receiver marks are hard to see, so there is some age on it.

No stacking hook on the front. K98K style rear sight. Simple post on the front that is also similar to my K98K, but no hood. Cleaning rod missing. They're asking 450 for it.

Barrel approximately 29 inches to the bolt face, give or take.

Thanks

Philip Neidlinger

The safety looks like ine of those Beuhler low types, and is on the opposite side.

Sounds problematic, could be ok, much depends on the rifle and how original it is. You say the markings on the receiver are hard to see? I assume the bolt body matches as it isn't listed? Is there a suffix under this 6210? Did the stock have a matching serial?

The bolt body matches. Everything matches except as indicated. The etchings on the receiver are hard to read because of general filth. There are no suffixes. And the number on the stock buttplate matched. I don't remember if the wood had a serial on it.

Philip

Whether the stock matches is important, no way worth $450 unless it does. Even still it is hit or miss, strange that a upgraded/reworked interwar Gew.98 has a matching bolt body but internals not matched. War time depot this is typical enough, but during the interwar period they would have numbered (forced matched) all components. Could be ok, switched out during the second WW but mismatched is mismatched.

If it is original-matching it might be a decent deal, no screaming bargain, but assuming it cleaned up well and no other issues it would an ok deal. Any problems and it gets less and less a decent deal and we can't tell you much without seeing it.

If you buy it, before you do, examine the rifle closely, it should be serialed externally, often depot markings at the wrist or side of the buttstock, sometimes buttplate or takedown, these would help date it to a period. The markings on the rear sight (and there should be some) will also date it to a degree, also see if the bolt will close on empty (the follower should be blued and it should stop the bolt), also if the barrel is a replacement it often will have a fireproof visible on the barrel, next to the serial, not so on Imperial era. How the bands are marked could be helpful, they should have the full serial on them, unlike Imperial era rifles.

Anyway, none of these things make much difference on value, but it might help weed out a humper (fraudulent rifle), little things can make a difference on reworks, how they are marked is important, and most humpers are novice collectors at best and do not know the tedious details so well... one thing that favors you though, is these interwar rifles do not have the following that nazi or even Imperial rifles do, and even though they are scarcer, much scarcer original-matching, the humpers haven't found them worth altering yet. (not much upside altering them, though value is greatly increased if fully matched and original, as they are very hard to find)

The bands had full matching serials on them. I do believe the stock was numbered correctly. Buttplate definitely matched. Bolt did not close on empty, and one had to depress the tray with the finger just like a K98K. Last two serial number digits on smaller pieces, like the bolt handle.

Philip

Bolt handle should have full serial on top flat. Bottom flat should have either Imperial acceptance or Weimar acceptance.

Sir, not 100% certain on the information. Again, being new at this, I noted incomplete and full numbers on the weapon in various places, but all, except for the round assembly the safety lever screws into, had some version of the same number on it.

This is a learning process, of course.

Tnx for the help.

PAN

I would be very careful buying this rifle, unless you can get pictures or do a detailed list of markings, which might be difficult in a gun shop, as it sounds like at best it is full retail and very likely overpriced. If the top flat of the bolt is only last two, the bolt is not original to German reworking.

No telling where the problems end and generally if there is one problem it is likely there are others, regardless it isn't likely to be a "good deal" and very likely a bad deal you will have a difficult time recouping your money on. Just an opinion of course.

More info:

Bolt handle has full matching serial "6210" on the flat. Underside of bolt handle flat has two markings on it, not Nazi so I assume they're imperial.
Extractor claw has "10" right behind the actual bit that grips the casing. The rotating band on claw has "57".

Stock has number "6210" on bottom near sling anchor.

Stock has "B" near takedown ring, same side as bolt handle. Maybe an imperial stamp on stock between B and takedown ring.

Front band "6210".

Rear band "6210".

Stock buttplate "6210".

Rear sight "6210". Newer style

No cutout in stock for bolt, as bolt is straight. Bolt and receiver blued. Entire rifle is blued.

No cleaning rod, missing.

Bottom plate near trigger guard "10". Bottom plate near front screw "6210", near two proof marks as well.

Bottom screws holding plate in both "10".

Bolt release lever labeled "10".

Markings on Receiver "Gew.98.

Number forward of Gew.98. is "6210".
Below 6210 cursive lowercase "a". Forward of "6210" on is some sort of eagle stamping.

Bolt side of receiver
S/42G with three proofs that read P74 I think, near rear sight.
3 imperial stamps just forward of rear end of receiver housing, I believe. One has a crown with "3" below it.

Non-standard Mk II safety lever. Assembly that lever is inserted into numbered "322".

1918 DWM Berlin on top of receiver; no other markings on top of receiver.

Eagle with "k16" below it just to rear of trigger guard on stock. Looks like an imperial symbol between eagle and trigger guard.

Philip

Sounds much better, might be ok after all.

KA4KOE said:

More info:

Bolt handle has full matching serial "6210" on the flat. Underside of bolt handle flat has two markings on it, not Nazi so I assume they're imperial.
Extractor claw has "10" right behind the actual bit that grips the casing. The rotating band on claw has "57".

Stock has number "6210" on bottom near sling anchor.

Stock has "B" near takedown ring, same side as bolt handle. Maybe an imperial stamp on stock between B and takedown ring.

Front band "6210".

Rear band "6210".

Stock buttplate "6210".

Rear sight "6210". Newer style

No cutout in stock for bolt, as bolt is straight. Bolt and receiver blued. Entire rifle is blued.

No cleaning rod, missing.

Bottom plate near trigger guard "10". Bottom plate near front screw "6210", near two proof marks as well.

Bottom screws holding plate in both "10".

Bolt release lever labeled "10".

Markings on Receiver "Gew.98.

Number forward of Gew.98. is "6210".
Below 6210 cursive lowercase "a". Forward of "6210" on is some sort of eagle stamping.

Bolt side of receiver
S/42G with three proofs that read P74 I think, near rear sight.
3 imperial stamps just forward of rear end of receiver housing, I believe. One has a crown with "3" below it.

Non-standard Mk II safety lever. Assembly that lever is inserted into numbered "322".

1918 DWM Berlin on top of receiver; no other markings on top of receiver.

Eagle with "k16" below it just to rear of trigger guard on stock. Looks like an imperial symbol between eagle and trigger guard.

Philip

Click to expand...

Rare, common, unusual? The stock is in fair condition, almost to where one asks, "Should I clean it up or leave it alone", and apply some furniture polish and move on. The metal work is dirty, so it needs removing just to clean it up.

As I learned on the K98K, getting the front bands off is a problem. I've got a nice gash on my hand from assembling/disassembling mine this past weekend....hand slipped and caught on the front sight......is there a good way to get the bands off easily? It shouldn't be this difficult

Philip

KA4KOE said:

or leave it alone", and apply some furniture polish

Click to expand...

Looks like you made a typo.. Leave it alone means just that - do nothing!!


I can help you with the K98 bands. Where are you having problems?


..

...

I depress the clips with a C clamp. I put something underneath the metal parts of the clamp to avoid marring up the rifle. The hard part is actually getting the bands to come off after depressing the clips with the clamp. I know not to use anything metallic or it will eat up the metal/wood when tapping the bands. Last time I used a wood dowel and hit it with a hammer. The dowel was placed adjacent to the band. I hit it too hard putting it back on, so had to remove the bands and reapply. That's when I slipped and dug a nice gouge in the palm side of my "letting you know you're No. 1" finger with the front sight post. Lotsa blood.

Suggestions?

And, I went out on a limb and did something that turned out okay. I checked the matching numbers and bought the rifle.

Also, the bullet ramp with the spring beneath it also has a "10" engraved on it.

Well you bought the rifle, so no more worrying about whether to buy it or not! Do some images.

Re- cleaning, first do some images, but generally cleaning rifles is problematic, especially the stocks. It is rarely advisable.

Re- front band, one thing is not to try and pull the band off with brute force, you could cover a front sight with a towel or use gloves if you feel you must pull it off. You seem to have the procedure ok, the thing is do not rush through the process, think before every action, you should have tapped it back off if it had to go forward. Generally, never try to pull a band off.

BTW- 1918 DWM rifles are not common, DWM had stopped making rifles in 1918, to focus on the P08 & MG08, so their rifles are often assembled by Oberspree that year. Yours might be DWM assembled, an "a" block, from recollection, is the last block known for them that year. It looses some of its appeal due to being an upgrade-probable rework, but still not too easy finding any 1918 Gew.98, especially in Imperial trim (yours isn't in Imperial trim, and most 1918 dated rifles aren't either)

Will do pix shortly. I need to get the K98K stock finished up first. I'm going to do a gentle preliminary cleaning on the gew as one would do for any firearm after time at the range. Also needed to mention that the bore had no internal corrosion.

By Imperial, do you mean roller coaster style rear sight???

Philip

Imperial= original Lange rear sight, bright receiver & bolt, no interwar modifications (follower blued & notched, refinished stock, often a interwar rework has a German sanded stock with fresh depot markings, band alterations, meaning wider band, or added serial numbers) etc..

Just finished first pass with gun oil/Hopps. First time I've used Hopps. Amazing how much crud it removed....AND I had to stop. That stuff is PUNGENT!!! Can smell all thru the house. Old dish rag I used to wipe the thing down is almost black.

PAN

After working on the gewehr, looked at the bands. They are loose enough to come off by hand, so this particular sticky widget won't be a problem after all. Funny thing is, I had cut my hand on the
K98K previously. Now, you figure a bright young lad such as myself would know better than to repeat a boner such as that again, but then again no one said I had any common sense!