Turbo Archie
Well-known member
What model is the clip fed Walther 22?
Thanks!!
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Thanks!!
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What model is a clip fed Walther 22?
- Thread starter Turbo Archie
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Turbo Archie
Well-known member
I found it = model II..
So these shoot semi with a bolt??
What is the value on these??
Thanks!!!
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So these shoot semi with a bolt??
What is the value on these??
Thanks!!!
..
mauser99
Senior Member
walther
no problem.. there is a notch on the receiver that locks the bolt if you want single shot. If not locked its a blow back repeater. There are two clip types. The hi-cap type is very scarce. The mod2 is more valuable. It has a longer barrel and adjustable rear sight. As you know. Condition is everything with these. 500-1500.00 is the range I'd place on one depending on condition.
When you pop out the bolt carrier you can see where walther got the idea for the g41.
no problem.. there is a notch on the receiver that locks the bolt if you want single shot. If not locked its a blow back repeater. There are two clip types. The hi-cap type is very scarce. The mod2 is more valuable. It has a longer barrel and adjustable rear sight. As you know. Condition is everything with these. 500-1500.00 is the range I'd place on one depending on condition.
When you pop out the bolt carrier you can see where walther got the idea for the g41.
Turbo Archie
Well-known member
Thanks for the help..
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The KKJ was a post-war creation wasn't it? The Model I and II were made during the war also. "yes it is" m99.
Be careful of shooting with hi-power .22 lr cartridges. I was shooting a Model I and the bolt handle cracked off. I had traded for it with Bob Simpson and told him about it. He remarked that in his opinioin, they were not designed for the modern hi-powered .22s. I had the bolt masterfully reattached.
I remember shooting one at a gun shop in Indianapolis in the 1970s and I found the sear had worn significantly. Five shots in a hurry.
Be careful of shooting with hi-power .22 lr cartridges. I was shooting a Model I and the bolt handle cracked off. I had traded for it with Bob Simpson and told him about it. He remarked that in his opinioin, they were not designed for the modern hi-powered .22s. I had the bolt masterfully reattached.
I remember shooting one at a gun shop in Indianapolis in the 1970s and I found the sear had worn significantly. Five shots in a hurry.
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mauser99
Senior Member
walther
Yes it is Joe..I just couldnt remember the model of the wartime version. KKM ? maybe. I will look in speed's book and check. If its in there. They are somewhat scarce as well..
Yes it is Joe..I just couldnt remember the model of the wartime version. KKM ? maybe. I will look in speed's book and check. If its in there. They are somewhat scarce as well..
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Turbo Archie
Well-known member
Now your confusing me.
Is a model II not a clip fed semi auto-repeater pre-1945?
"confusion reduced I hope by removing two posts..M99"
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Is a model II not a clip fed semi auto-repeater pre-1945?
"confusion reduced I hope by removing two posts..M99"
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mauser99
Senior Member
yes..
I cleaned this up as it was getting really confusing. The mod1 and mod2 are basicly the same rifle. Mod1 has a shorter barrel flip rear sight. Mod2 has a long barrel and a sliding V notch rear sight like a walther sport modell. You can get a manual also for these rifles from Cornell publications. Its a reprint of an orig.
I had one and its of good quality. I sold it with the rifle.
Anyway; I thought walther made a "bolt action" repeater. Not to be confused with something thats self loading. I may be mistaken. I though I have seen one..
Also: they would be crown/n or bug/crown pre1940 proofed. I have never seen an eagle/N example.
I cleaned this up as it was getting really confusing. The mod1 and mod2 are basicly the same rifle. Mod1 has a shorter barrel flip rear sight. Mod2 has a long barrel and a sliding V notch rear sight like a walther sport modell. You can get a manual also for these rifles from Cornell publications. Its a reprint of an orig.
I had one and its of good quality. I sold it with the rifle.
Anyway; I thought walther made a "bolt action" repeater. Not to be confused with something thats self loading. I may be mistaken. I though I have seen one..
Also: they would be crown/n or bug/crown pre1940 proofed. I have never seen an eagle/N example.
Turbo Archie
Well-known member
So its not semi-auto?
I though that was cool for a bolt action..
"""".Yes it is both !!! you can use it as a boltaction repeater or semiauto/repeater !""""" M99
I though that was cool for a bolt action..
"""".Yes it is both !!! you can use it as a boltaction repeater or semiauto/repeater !""""" M99
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The Walther Mod I and II were produced after January 1940 and can be found with E/N proofs. On another thread I posted my Mod I E/N with a 1944 birthday inscription to a German police officer. My Model II is also E/N and I somehow bought a complete Mod II action with magazine from Simpson years ago and it is E/N.
Some confusion arose with the original question being "What model is a clip fed Walther .22?" with no action specified. Again, pre-1945, Walther did not make any magazine fed manual bolt action only rifles. Were there other manual bolt action pre-1945 rifles besides Mauser manufacture?
I checked in "Walther, A German Legend" and in 1953 Walther introduced the KKJ small caliber bolt action only sport rifle series that was available with a magazine or single shot. From the photos in the book, it appears Walther used a trigger guard/magazine housing similar or identical to that found on the Mod I and II produced before the war. In addition, Walther produced a magazine fed small caliber bolt action target rife in the 1960s with a magazine.
Here is a link to a very good thread on a competing network that discusses these Walther semi-autos.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...-Karabiner-Model-I-and-II&highlight=semi+auto
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When the bolt broke on the Walther E/N Mod 1 as I described above, I searched for a replacement bolt. I found one at Simpson's. Actually it was an entire E/N action but for a Mod 2. The bolts are identical and I was able to disassemble and switch. After a couple months I decided to check locally if the bolt could be repaired. There was a master craftsman and he did a fantastic job. I replaced the repaired bolt and kept the action. Here is what it looks like if anyone is interested.
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Once was parts available
A bucket full of the actions turned up in Texas a couple a decades ago that were looted out of the factory after capture. Not sure where they wound up, but I think Bob may have gotten a couple.
Another common malady from shooting modern high velocity ammo in these is cracked stock wrists from the bolt blowing back. Most I encounter are cracked.
Definately stick with standard velocity if shooting these. You wil also find that ammo producing around 1100 fps results in the sight markings properly calibrated.
Although I often do shoot the stuff in my collection, my suggestion is these best not unless great care taken in ammo selection.
A bucket full of the actions turned up in Texas a couple a decades ago that were looted out of the factory after capture. Not sure where they wound up, but I think Bob may have gotten a couple.
Another common malady from shooting modern high velocity ammo in these is cracked stock wrists from the bolt blowing back. Most I encounter are cracked.
Definately stick with standard velocity if shooting these. You wil also find that ammo producing around 1100 fps results in the sight markings properly calibrated.
Although I often do shoot the stuff in my collection, my suggestion is these best not unless great care taken in ammo selection.
Only a couple decades ago? Seems like yesterday. I prepared the following info for another forum thread on period .22 ammo. The broken bolt handle mentioned before and in the article below could be attributed to poor production quality. The bolt cracked off and revealed a large chunk of slag in the casting that proved to be the weak link. Viewing the pressures indicated in the chart reveals that even standard velocity modern .22 lr cartridges could prove a problem.
The differences in the two types of .22 ammunition that I described above prompted me to investigate the matter further. I thought that the special ammunition developed in the 1930s for the semi-automatic pistols and rifles produced by Walther and other arms makers featured a higher charge of propellant. Reading the material available in Bock's book "Moderne Faustfeuerwaffen", it is evident the materials used in the cartridges was identical but the materials were prepared differently. The .22 lr and .22 kurz cartridge cases were nickle plated to facilitate extraction from the chambers of the semi-auto actions. The casings of those.22 cartridges were made of tombac, a mixture of copper and zinc. Not at all like the brass used in modern .22 cartridges. The material is soft and the cartridges were prone to getting hung up during extraction apparently.
There has been some discussion elsewhere on the dangers of using modern .22 ammunition in these weapons. Many speak of the danger of hi-velocity cartridges in these old actions. I thought I would gather some data from period references to demonstrate that there was a distinct difference in the production standards of .22 ammo 70 years ago. As you can see in this chart I prepared, standard .22 ammo of that period had values almost 30% less in all categories. I can attest to the potential problems. While shooting a Walther Model I semi-auto rifle some years ago, the bolt handle was broken off in recoil.
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Turbo Archie
Well-known member
Not to hijack my own thread, but here is the subject rifle I started the thread about.
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Attachments
You know, the stock on this gun looks odd to me. The Model IIs usually had a longer forstock with gripping inlets on both sides of the rifle. This stock looks like it is from a Model I. Can you show a picture of the top of the pistol grip to the rear of the wing safety?
Here are my two together with the Model I on top.
Here are my two together with the Model I on top.
Turbo Archie
Well-known member
Attachments
You are most certainly welcome. I was trying to understand the production of the special ammo intended for the semi-auto .22s and found out the charge was all the same; it was just the other cartridge components that differed.
Turbo, from what I see, you have a Mod II action in a Mod I stock. The Mod I had a thumb push safety button on the tang instead of the wing type safety. That judgement is based on the drawings and descriptions from period Walther literature and commercial catalogs. I don't know if you can see the differences in the safeties of your Mod II action and the one I posted above. Yours is BUG proofed and would appear to be from the mid 1930s, though I cannot be sure of dating other than it is obviously earlier than the one I posted which is an E/N with a "K" suffix (for Karabiner) from the early 1940s. The notches to anchore the wing safety are deeply cut in the rear of the bolt as opposed to mine. But the tag of yours is shaped identically to the Mod. I and fits in that type of stock.
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