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The Saxon Sterngewehr

Loewe

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Staff member
Recently a collector asked me about the Saxon Sterngewehr, basically what makes it different than other Sterngewehrs (Star Rifles)?

A Sterngewehr is a rifle made of parts delivered by sub-contractors, Storz calls it parts made by "decentralized production". These parts are often off-standard parts, simply parts that require extra hand fitting due to tolerances being in excess of what was standard. All German rifles, whether from 1898 when the first Gewehr98 came off the assembly line at Mauser, to 1945 at any of the manufacturing facilities, the Modell98 never achieve fully interchangeable parts manufacture. It is more of a problem for earlier rifles, especially ones with tight fitting stocks, like the Kar.98a, but you can see this problem clearly if you swap a few parts from one rifle to another. Stocks, bolt sleeves, safeties, and even trigger guards and bands can often give you heartburn finding the exact part that fit perfectly without alteration.

The Saxon Sterngewehr is briefly discussed in Storz book, pages 124 and again pages 173-175. It is unique because of several factors, one they were made by the Ammunition Factory at Dresden, not an establish rifle manufacturer. Second, they have unique markings and serialing patterns from other Gewehr98 production, and they all sport the cypher of the King of Saxony, Friedrich August III "C/FA".

There are few hard fast rules with these Sterngewehrs, neither with the Dresden (Saxon) variation, or the other types that were made by the state arsenals. They all have unique characteristics, Dresden particularly so, which are generally the highest quality and seem better made and marked than the others (more attention to detail).

What to look for:

1. The Erfurt style "chicken" fireproof
2. A number suffix
3. The Saxon cypher on the stock and buttplate (Crown / FA)
4. Serialing with suffix on the trigger guard and buttplate (Imperial rifles do not have suffix on stocks or buttplates)
5. A unique and professional looking star on top of the receiver. (many arsenals used crude line or "stick" stars)

The receiver markings can vary, currently the majority are Spandau marked receivers, but Simson made receivers are numerous also (Simson had a long relationshuip with Saxony). There are old (early) Gewehr98's recycled into this production as are a few WOK (Oberspree) receivers. Suffix range from the no-block through the "5" block, they are the most numerous by serial range of all the known Sterngewehr variations, except for the "H" (Hannover) variation. Though this could be simply because the state arsenals incorporating their Sterngewehrs within normal production (this was the case with Danzig).

Here are pictures of my 1917 Simson serial number 3812 3, it is rather a barker, very rough due to neglect and hard use, but it is fully matching except cleaning rod.
 

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Great stuff thanks for posting!!! :thumbsup:

are you ever able to tell what parts needed the extra work/fitting?
 
Try swapping parts and you will see extra interchangeable issues. The ball on the bolt handle is weird too, almost a little like a football but less pronounced (I would photograph it for you but it isn't too noticable in pictures, but in hand it looks & feels strange..). Little weird stuff sometimes shows up, but nothing too dramatic.

I had meant to post this earlier for you, but I get sidetracked easily. When I was working on this I found pictures of another rifle that I had searched high & low for, for another collector. Problem is I do not remember who or whether here or Gunboards.

I will post pictures on another thread and if anyone remembers the thread or post this came up on, do help link to the other post. Just a terrible memory and I would be lost without my files and database!


Great stuff thanks for posting!!! :thumbsup:

are you ever able to tell what parts needed the extra work/fitting?
 
Thanks for posting, Paul. Great information and awesome rifle. I really enjoy the C/FA on the Saxon weapons. There have been a couple Saxon Spandau 1916/17s on Gun Broker in last few years (I saved the pictures from the auctions) but I haven't seen any Simsons there, only on the forums.
 
Thanks Cyrus, yes I like the Saxon cypher also, I think BiO has an Kar.98a with a Saxon cypher, which is uncommon. I do not think it has the C/FA over date on the buttplate though, only the stock cypher.

How many do you have recorded?

Thanks for posting, Paul. Great information and awesome rifle. I really enjoy the C/FA on the Saxon weapons. There have been a couple Saxon Spandau 1916/17s on Gun Broker in last few years (I saved the pictures from the auctions) but I haven't seen any Simsons there, only on the forums.
 
Paul, thanks for that. Great information - as always. The "squirrel" appreciates it.
 
I report DWM 1915/16, receiver originally SN 639e (? stippled; not clear); now SN 1993/2; matching; standard bolt; marking disc reversed.
 
Thanks!

Is this the one pictured in Bob Ball's book? I am sure it is looking at the picture?

I report DWM 1915/16, receiver originally SN 639e (? stippled; not clear); now SN 1993/2; matching; standard bolt; marking disc reversed.
 
What style fireproof does it have, the right receiver acceptance? What is the serial number?

Danzig assembled quite a few Spandau receivers in 1917, MO a few also, I know Danzig usually "sterngewehr'd" them (with the crude asterisk star), off hand MO just incorporated them in their serial range without the star. I think it was Storz that said only the arsenals (& Dresden) did the star thing, off hand I think he is right in this regard, - from recollection.

Yes.
I've also got an Erfurt with the asterisk-type star.
 
What style fireproof does it have, {Standard Erfurt left} the right receiver acceptance? {No fp right} // What is the serial number? {SN 2518/1; 1916; disc reversed.}

Danzig assembled quite a few Spandau receivers in 1917, MO a few also, I know Danzig usually "sterngewehr'd" them (with the crude asterisk star), off hand MO just incorporated them in their serial range without the star. I think it was Storz that said only the arsenals (& Dresden) did the star thing, off hand I think he is right in this regard, - from recollection.

Reply in {}
 
Brain fart... typical Erfurt sterngewehr.

For whatever reason some Erfurt sterngewehrs have the numeric suffix and star, others look like normal production with letter suffix and no star. For a long while some speculated that all Erfurt Gew.98's 1915-1917 were sterngewehrs, or rather the same variation with or without the star due to the sloppy nature of the rifles appearance and some ill fitting components. But as Erfurt can be known for this trait on their normal Kar98a and P08 production (comparatively to commercial makers) I think it is more likely they had normal production and sterngewehr production during 1916.

One can assume they made small numbers of normal Gewehr98's 1915-1917 and in 1916-1917 good numbers of sterngewehrs. 1915 & 1917 are very elusive rifles, especially 1917, one is a report from the KCN and said to have "nn" suffix, hard to know if it is listed as a Gew.98 in error or whether it is a diverted rifle to Danzig (there are a number of Danzig sterngewehrs in the "pp" block of other makers receivers, the "p" is often confused with the "n" on Danzig production, only by a comparison of the two fonts can they be discerned from one another). It is probably misreported Kar.98a, which is typical of early "reports". The other two 1917's are sterngewehrs under 10k no suffix, but have Erfurt style fp.

Anyway, not sure what I was thinking yesterday... as soon as I read your post today I went duh.. how stupid was that!
 
Paul ; Off hand I recall my 1916 Erfurt gew98 is unique in that while matching it was built with a "salvaged" barrel. It is serialed very closely in the same alpha suffix range - had been lined out then matched to the 'new' receiver. Apparently it was assembled to a rifle that could not be made to work and the barrel was pulled off and mounted on a slightly later serialed receiver and soldiered on. I think it's an 'a' suffix if memory serves me right.
 
Breathing too much bore cleaner will do that.

Breathing RBC with copious amounts of barley product to dilute it's apparent effect does the trick. Did that last night in fact along with some sodium lamp illuminated night fire.
 
Thanks Bill, always good to have your input!

As for your rifle, it is an "e" block, 6540 e, the barrel has 5470 e below the proper serial 6540 e. It is a neat rifle I agree, - as for Erfurt and their Gew.98 production, they seem very sloppy indeed making the Gew.98, sterngewehr or not. KenL use to own an "a" block that seems to have had a very roughly made barrel, 9779 a was the serial. PM might own it now, he picked up a lot of Ken's old rifles.

Here is a few pictures of your rifle, to show others what you describe. It looks sort of like an "L" block, but imo it is an "e", I have quite a few Erfurt/1916 recorded, none higher than the mid "f" block. I doubt they went as high as the "L" block.

Paul ; Off hand I recall my 1916 Erfurt gew98 is unique in that while matching it was built with a "salvaged" barrel. It is serialed very closely in the same alpha suffix range - had been lined out then matched to the 'new' receiver. Apparently it was assembled to a rifle that could not be made to work and the barrel was pulled off and mounted on a slightly later serialed receiver and soldiered on. I think it's an 'a' suffix if memory serves me right.
 

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As for your rifle, it is an "e" block, 6540 e, the barrel has 5470 e below the proper serial 6540 e. It is a neat rifle I agree, - as for Erfurt and their Gew.98 production, they seem very sloppy indeed making the Gew.98, sterngewehr or not. KenL use to own an "a" block that seems to have had a very roughly made barrel, 9779 a was the serial. PM might own it now, he picked up a lot of Ken's old rifles.

Didn't get that one unfortunately, though I would have liked to. I do happen to have a 1916 Spandau serial number 9779 z.
 

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