not another 1915 ERFURT Kar98

funny thing, before I found this forum I had never even seen a picture of another one,
now I find they are all too common, I believe every third thread in this section is about one, ah well, that's life,
A little history on mine, it was found some 30 years ago, in a pawn shop, and bought it for the hefty sum of $40 (yea forty dollars)
it has "1920" stamped on the receiver, and stock, along with a line where some GI cut it, to fit it in a duffel bag, (or so I have been told)
on the plus side, all the numbers match, (s/n is in the low 4000 range) and it still retains a fair amount of finish, (more pic's to follow if requested)

caferacer said:

funny thing, before I found this forum I had never even seen a picture of another one,
now I find they are all too common, I believe every third thread in this section is about one, ah well, that's life,
A little history on mine, it was found some 30 years ago, in a pawn shop, and bought it for the hefty sum of $40 (yea forty dollars)
it has "1920" stamped on the receiver, and stock, along with a line where some GI cut it, to fit it in a duffel bag, (or so I have been told)
on the plus side, all the numbers match, (s/n is in the low 4000 range) and it still retains a fair amount of finish, (more pic's to follow if requested)

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well i was gonna say you paid for the sling and got the rest for free, but the sling is worth more than $40 nowadays

the sling is a $25 repro I just bought at a gun show

caferacer said:

the sling is a $25 repro I just bought at a gun show

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So much for my whitty saying

it is also marked "P.w.B." on the stock and butt plate, (I believe these are some type of police marking?)
as this rifle nears 100 years old, I begin to question if it is a good idea to shoot it or not?
I also have a sporterized 1916 DANZIG Gew, that I could shoot instead, (being sporterized I assume that is all it is good for)

Polizeiwehr Bayern, a heavily armed (for police) police organization in Bavaria, they were absorbed by the Landespolizei after the Entente put pressure on the German government. They didn't last long..

Rifles marked to them are fairly rare, only a half a dozen are known, mostly Kar.98a, bayonets and a few assorted items, including one sword.

Do some pictures.

Shooting these rifles is no more dangerous than any other quality rifle. You need to take reasonable precautions, examine the rifle closely for problems (bulges, blocked bores, altered barrels, metal fatigue, etc..) use quality ammunition and wear eye protection, but as long as the rifle is original, not altered or has any serious headspace issues it should be safe to fire regularly (I have never encountered an unsafe headspace on an "original" Modell98 military rifle, even with a mismatched bolt, though I have never collected abused foreign used rifles).

Almost every dangerous situation I have heard about relates to ammunition selection or unsafe handling.

the marks are very hard to see, and not a very good camera I am afraid, so these were the best I could get

Very odd rifle, never seen the Pw.B marked this way. The style is quite different, but usually the Pw.B and "1920" is on the right side of stock together, in a different style, sometimes higher or lower (like the EWB militia markings they vary in placement). The buttplate markings vary too, the one I use to own only had the company and weapon number on the buttplate, while others have more elaborate unit markings.

I will post a couple pictures of the one I use to own. It is like all others known as far as the buttstock markings go. Hard to say about yours, the images aren't great or thorough, but it isn't like a enough collectors collect these rifles, so not much incentive to fabricate one. The one I bought years ago didn't even mention the marking.

Pics suck, they were taken in 2002, before I really took pictures of everything I should have.

I have learned more about my Mauser this week, than in the 30 years I have owned it, thanks
the P.w.B. is on the right side of the stock, the 1920 is stamped on the left side, and on the receiver, both 1920 stamps are larger than the P.w.B. stamps,

The Pw.B. was formed 1 Oct 1919; strength 4,500; redesignated as Landespolizei 26 Aug 1922. Marking regulations were issued 26 May 1920 and are reproduced in Wacker & Görtz, Handbuch Deutscher Waffenstempel. The PwB was issued pistols, carbines, MGs, bayonets and sabers. Specific types of weapons known to have been issued: P.08s, C96/16 (9x19), Mauser M14s, Sauer M13s, S98/05s, Sabers M73 (Bavarian), Kar 98as; see: Maus, History Writ in Steel. No LP08s or G98s reported.

Hey CafeRacer.
I didn't realize from your other thread on duffle-cuts, that it was referring to a rifle similar to one of my favorites.
I was lucky enough to acquire a GEW98 1917 from Amberg this past summer - also for a song ($250), that I learned a lot about thanks to SimsonSuhl (also Mike Farb, and Amberg).
Mine was re-dated 1920 as well, but had been in the possession of the Einwohnerwehr Bayern (EWB), which was the Bavarian Militia, another post-war organization, local to their State, which eventually dis-armed and turned over (most of) their weapons to the fledgling Weimar republic, who then re-dated everything with a 1920 marking.
I love the burned-in look of the "branding" of the EWB in the stock.
It would be interesting to scan your Kar98a for any other post-WW1 markings that would indicate any updates that might have been made.
Since yours is also a duffle-cut, I'd assume it saw some WW2 experience, was captured by a USGI at some point, and then cut in two to be shipped home to the States.
My GEW98 was updated post-war, as evidenced by the updated rear sight, and the rear band with a 1938 Spandau arsenal marking.
This is by far, my favorite piece in my small-but-growing collection, mainly due to the colorful history it clearly displays.
(see the prior thread from August, to get the same education SimsonSuhl provided me - its pretty fascinating!)
Also - I did take mine out to the range after a thorough inspection, cleaning (mechanisms only) and lubrication.
She shot like a champ, both accurately and smoothly operating - especially given her 100 years experience!

there appears to be a "7,?" above the 1920 on the receiver visible in the last pic, (I never noticed it before today) I will look closer with a magnifying glass for any other marks, it appears that every part hast the full 4 digit serial number, or the last two numbers, stamped on it

the brand on yours is very cool looking, no second guessing where that one was, a keeper for sure
perhaps I am biased, although I have seen a lot of 98 Mausers for sale, I have never seen one I would think of trading mine for, even for a second.


Thanks for the info on the P.w.B. I am curious, with a strength of only 4500, how many Kar98's did they have? I would imagine they stockpiled quite a few,

caferacer said:

there appears to be a "7,?" above the 1920 on the receiver visible in the last pic, (I never noticed it before today) I will look closer with a magnifying glass for any other marks, it appears that every part hast the full 4 digit serial number, or the last two numbers, stamped on it

the brand on yours is very cool looking, no second guessing where that one was, a keeper for sure
perhaps I am biased, although I have seen a lot of 98 Mausers for sale, I have never seen one I would think of trading mine for, even for a second.


Thanks for the info on the P.w.B. I am curious, with a strength of only 4500, how many Kar98's did they have? I would imagine they stockpiled quite a few,

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The "7,?" is most likely the caliber rating stamped on the barrel/receiver. Mine says "7.92", indicating the standard 8mm caliber (see photo below).
And I agree - this is my favorite so far, even with the duffle cut. If you look at some of the discussions on this board, there are some that feel that the duffle cut adds to the charm and authenticity of the weapon's history. I'm on the fence about repairs, and in this particular case, I am refraining from fixing it, since it only reinforces the story of this 2-war piece of history.
Yours is already repaired, apparently done well, so that decision is made already for you.

AH, thanks, yes that makes sense, as far as fixing it goes, I am of the opinion that the damage is done, repairing it does no further harm, and is an improvement,

any idea what the value of mine is? I have been told $100 to $200 due to the duffel cut,

Ortmeier & Lien, Verdeckt militärisch, in DWJ Juni 2012 gives following data:
Strength of PwB 4,600 (3,000 from Munich, 1,600 from Franken); arms distribution (presumably initially):3,400 k98a; 3,400 pistols (types/quantities not specified),6,800 (!) sabers, ID'd as Bavarian M55s, 40 HMGs, 264 LMGs, 8 artillery pieces (types not specified), 8 Flammenwerfers, 12 Minenwerfers, grenades, some MP 18s.
At least one Bavarian IOD M89 with PwB is reported elsewhere (Wacker & Götz, op. cit.)

Bigdibbs88 said:

So much for my whitty saying

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hehehehe! I thought it was funny!