Third Party Press

It's a long shot, but...

Pat

Moderator
Staff member
A question came up on Gunboards regarding continued production of the Yugoslav rifles under German occupation after April 1941. These factories exchanged hands in the ebb and flow of battle, and with the growing ability of the Partisans to mount larger operations and hold ground against German and Italian forces as the war progressed.

Presumably, any rifles assembled after the seizure of the factories would probably not have been serialized, and some might not have been marked with the typical first letter of the last name of the inspector, as seen on some (but not all) small parts on Yugoslav rifles. By extension, it would be possible to have rifles in circulation that were effectively without serial numbers, or least some unnumbered major components.

Has anyone ever seen such a beast? Granted, these would be few in number and would have been reduced further by wartime losses and the Communist habit of removing or re-marking most pre-Communist markings. I'd imagine that if they are in circulation, they'd be on bring-backs using other marked components, or in some cases, none at all.

Pat
 
There were M48 Yugos made without serial numbers or other markings, supposedly for clandestine purposes, though that rather romantic explanation is always suspect. But AFAIK, the Germans never had rifles made in Yugoslavia. The tooling at the Yugoslav factory had been obtained c. 1924 from FN in Belgium and was for the FN Model 1924, the same intermediate action as the later M48 made in Yugoslavia after WWII. Rifles made on that tooling would not have been standard and some parts would not interchange with the German K.98k. For that reason, the Germans, again AFAIK, never had rifles made in Yugoslavia. Whether they utililzed any of the facilities there, I don't know; maybe someone else can help.

The idea that the M48 (1948 was three years after WWII ended) was a K.98k, or a German rifle, or made for the Germans, or used by the Germans, was an advertising lie put out by Mitchell's Mausers to hype rifles that had not existed during WWII and had no historical interest.

Jim
 
James,
Thanks for the response. I'm familiar with both the pre- and post-war Yugoslav variants, but thanks for the input.

Looks like I didn't clarify my question sufficiently. I'm wondering if anyone has seen or owned any Model 1924s or variants (like a Cavalry Carbine) with NON-serialized Yugoslav parts that would be indicated by a single Serbian Cyrillic letter, or at least with some non-serialized components. What I'm getting at is the possibility that either Partisans or Germans (or maybe both) took the opportunity to 'rush assemble' whole rifles from component bins consisting of unnumbered parts. Secondarily, there's the possibility that some of these same supplies of unnumbered parts could have been taken and used later to refit rifles that needed repair/parts replacement in units that would have used the Yugoslav rifles themselves. In other words, it would seem to make sense to ship a bunch of Yugoslav parts to Ingolstadt for repairs and refitting of Yugoslav rifles sent there prior to redeployment in or out of theater.

Pat
 
Pat,
Never seen nor heard of such a beast. I think the Germans had their hands full with Yugoslavian Mausers from those they captured / were surrendered. I've seen plenty of those with German HZA inspections (depot). These were merely captured rifles which were repaired or required inspection before reissue to German or satellite troops.

The Germans would not have used a captured factory to produce Yugoslavian rifles for German use without sending teams there and assigning inspection of such rifles to a WaA group. Such rifles, just as Czech production (Brunn I and II) would have picked up a WaA inspection team and such rifles, just as Czech production, would have had the required inspection markings of said WaA team on the rifle were prescribed by regulations for rifles manufactured for German service.

I believe the Mitchells Mausers / asstalk indication by James is appropriate. Such theories sound more like a Mitchells sales pitch / asstalk story to gin up a piece or parts which are postwar. If the Germans manufactured these under occupation for issue I would think one would have turned up by now and depicted.

Cheers,
HB
 
Thanks Ham, that makes total sense in the context of regular German manufacture practice.
My question originated not in a MM sales pitch but in a response I made to a thread in the Military Mauser sub-forum over at Gunboards. That got me thinking about the disposition of captured materiel recovered from Kragujevac and Royal Yugoslav depots by German troops. I turn a deaf ear to anything MM says; it's laughable at best, but usually just outright misleading.

Thanks!
Pat
 

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