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C.G Haenel Suhl 1916 BS intertwined markings.

Lt_Data

Lt_Data

Member
Hello,

I have a 1916 C.G Haenel Suhl Gew 98. It has an intertwined "BS" marking on it and I was wondering if anyone here has seen this before or know what it means. My search on the net has come up with nothing and everyone I talked to said it's related to Berlin-Suhler Waffenfabrik or apparently it's exact meaning is not known or suspected to come from the depot at Berlin-Spandau, or possibly designating a unit or group of some sort. Any help clarifying is really appreciated, thanks.

http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew 98/P1010618_zps4dc22ca8.jpg.html
http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010623_zps399c8fd6.jpg.html
http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010637_zps6e43866c.jpg.html
http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010622_zps78f70736.jpg.html
http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010635_zps4fb52b62.jpg.html
 
Welcome LT, you have a nice rifle it looks like. Pretty scarce maker, and it has some interesting interwar markings.

The "Gz" is a depot marking, most probably it represents the HZa at Glatz in lower Silesia, modern day Poland (some lists use HZa Gl, but it is the only possibility I know of prior to 1938). The depot was active in the interwar period, though little is known about it. (The more well known HZa Graudenz was in occupied Poland until 1939). I am not sure what the other markings represent on the left buttstock.

It is highly unusual for an interwar upgrade not to have a take down installed, I assume the stock is serialed internally to match also?

The intertwined BS topic is well worn here, link below, it is also covered in Bruce Karems & Mike Steves book in some detail:

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?1264-Intertwined-BS-marking-question&highlight=Intertwined

It has nothing at all to do with BSW.
 
Can you do a better image of the wrist, is there anything marked here that you can get a good picture of? Perhaps a depot marking?

I was wondering about the markings on the buttstock, comparing to other "Gz" marked stocks, I had always assumed they were for HZa Glatz, however it occurred to me that it might be organizational, possibly related the intertwined "BS" marking. Only a few have been recorded like yours (with a matching stock), one is clearly 'BS" marked both on the top of the receiver and side of the buttstock, another just like yours, another is property marked, no apparent intertwined "BS" but only a few pictures were taken of the rifle, it might have had one on the barrel shoulder which is common.

Another interesting thing is that some other "BS" marked stocks have other combinations similar to the application of the "Gz", in some cases "Br" seems to be common.

Perhaps this "Gz" isn't depot at all, perhaps it is tied to the intertwined "BS" marking and is related to the location or district of whatever. I am not sure really but we need more examples documented to even have a chance at figuring it out. The next biggest challenge seems to be that there is not solid or consistent pattern, some stocks only have the intertwined "BS" without the "Gz" or Br" marking, some have sections of the stock marked over or overstamped... hard to develop a pattern when the pool of examples is small and the markings are often overstruck or not shown.
 
Hello and thanks for welcoming me to the board. It's really nice to meet others who share similar interests. I'd be happy to provide more info.

In the wrist area there is a really faint mark and my camera cannot get enough of a detailed picture. Maybe if the wood was cleaned up it would be easier to see but I don't want to accidentally ruin anything so I will leave it as is. In the wrist area there is what looks like A crown or possibly a "W" with what looks like "BR" under that. Just below that looks like an obscure upside down anchor or just another ding in the stock as it has a few here and there. Above the serial# stamp 4865 beside the butt sling swivel is a circle with what looks like the letter "B" in it. In the barrel channel of the stock, there is a matching serial # 4865 as on the receiver. The upper handguard has another number x-ed out with 4865 stamped and is more visible. There is a small piece of wood missing on the left side of the butt so whatever was marked there is a mystery unfortunately. On the butt-plate there is a very faint # 4865 that has a line through it and 4865 stamped again, seems pointless to re-stamp the same number?

I also removed the butt-plate and on the butt "J G D" is stamped. A # 23 is stamped on the underside of the butt-plate and inside the magwell as well, just above the floor-plate.

Thanks again for all the info.
 
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Can you do as clear a picture as possible of the wrist area? It is an area that receives a significant amount of wear, but a good picture might reveal something I can identify.

I agree, you should not attempt to clean the stock under any circumstances.
 
SimsonSuhl said:
Can you do as clear a picture as possible of the wrist area? It is an area that receives a significant amount of wear, but a good picture might reveal something I can identify.

I agree, you should not attempt to clean the stock under any circumstances.
Click to expand...

Ok here we go, I took multiple pictures and hopefully there is something to be seen! I used an LED and incandescent light (all I had to work with b/c the flash was too strong).

http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010665_zps505c8d27.jpg.html
http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010666_zps893be71a.jpg.html
http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010664_zpse3fda703.jpg.html
http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010671_zps47c90592.jpg.html
http://s964.beta.photobucket.com/user/Lt_Data/media/Gew%2098/P1010655_zps46a4c690.jpg.html
 
Thanks for trying so hard, I can see nothing that would suggest an ordnance depot acceptance of the interwar period, not sure what to think in regard to the intertwined "BS" and "Gz" or "Br" pattern, I was hoping an obvious depot marking at the wrist might suggest the Gz is something other than a depot marking. Having one in the proper place and style would possibly suggest the "Gz" is something else, possibly connected to the intertwined "BS" mystery.

More research is needed here, more examples with original stocks would help tremendously, many if not most intertwined "BS" marked rifles do not have the original stock and those that do have variation to marking patterns, though there are a good number "Gz" or "Br" marked much like yours.
 
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