Numbers in Walther DSM Sling slots

Trying to make sense of the small numbers that appear in most (all?) Walther DSM sling slots.

Previously thought these were rack numbers for location owned and stored.

Now thinking that can't be the case as recently acquired one in the first range that also has that area numbered in same font. All others previously noted were in the D suffix second range.

Also have observed them on guns with different property marks captured far apart. Pretty sure one of these file photos is of a Police marked gun that Bob in Ohio has in his collection, other picture is on one with a Langemarck property mark.

Have come to the conclusion they are not rack numbers or property numbers and must have been factory applied for some other purpose. Perhaps stock serial number used supplied by sub-contractor?? Other theories welcome.

Would appreciate any reports on any Walther DSM that does not have such a number and any reports on what number appears on what serial numbers guns.

Walther DSM 34 with distributor name on bbl. Friedrich Bartels of Wiesbaden.
Serial Number 57087
Sling Slot 139

Here are three...

Thanks guys

And keep them coming. The more evidence I have the better the chance of us being able to draw some conclusions.

I will post a consolidation/correlation of the serial numbers and slot numbers and observations I come up with here as a reply.

I have a Walther Sportmodel (not a DSM). there is no number in the sling well. Must be a DSM mark only.
Rifle is missing some wood and metal from being duffel cut.

here's mine..

I doug my little safe queen out.. I think this rifle has the honor of being the oldest one in my collection.. And one of the first trainers I ever bought. It was complete and near mint right down to the muzzle cover and sling.. It also has numbers stamped in both sides. I hope this doesnt send jim off on another quest..


SERIAL # 58144 slot # 199 I see a slight creep up from Dennys rifle. in the slot # but it doesnt creep up the same numericaly.

Current thoughts

"SERIAL # 58144 slot # 199 I see a slight creep up from Dennys rifle. in the slot # but it doesnt creep up the same numericaly"

58175 has 221

Numbers on stocks not being installed quite chronologically but close as in from same lot

What that suggests to me is these were either stock serial numbers from the stock shop or applied by a subcontractor relative to the stock only.

Rifle serial number applied to stock on all I have observed are penciled only in barrel channel. That on only a handful.

Subcontractor makes most sense to me. Why would Walther need to track individual stock seperately internally?

Anyway, I think we have ruled out this being a rack or inventory number at the user level. Probably the only conclusion we can draw. That was my previous "assumption". Assumptions only an avenue to explore.

Thanks all for the replys. More still welcome.

Another piece of the puzzle.

Gives rise to another question:

"If these stocks were sub contractor supplied, are these numbers in same font noted on other Zella Mehlis DSM makers guns?"

Please check your guns (particularly Green Hearts)

Paatz - NOT observed but not conclusive
Anschutz - NOT obersered but not conclusive
Weihrauch ??
Greenheart ??

mauser22 said:

"SERIAL # 58144 slot # 199 I see a slight creep up from Dennys rifle. in the slot # but it doesnt creep up the same numericaly"

58175 has 221

Numbers on stocks not being installed quite chronologically but close as in from same lot

What that suggests to me is these were either stock serial numbers from the stock shop or applied by a subcontractor relative to the stock only.

Rifle serial number applied to stock on all I have observed are penciled only in barrel channel. That on only a handful.

Subcontractor makes most sense to me. Why would Walther need to track individual stock seperately internally?

Anyway, I think we have ruled out this being a rack or inventory number at the user level. Probably the only conclusion we can draw. That was my previous "assumption". Assumptions only an avenue to explore.

Thanks all for the replys. More still welcome.

Another piece of the puzzle.

Gives rise to another question:

"If these stocks were sub contractor supplied, are these numbers in same font noted on other Zella Mehlis DSM makers guns?"

Please check your guns (particularly Green Hearts)

Paatz - NOT observed but not conclusive
Anschutz - NOT obersered but not conclusive
Weihrauch ??
Greenheart ??

Click to expand...

I am sorry I have not pulled my E/C marked Walther DSM to look for numbers. Will do tonight. But why do you think the numbers had to be from outsourcing producer of the stocks. Don't you think Walther had the facilities to produce all the wood stocks they needed? Or was your train of thought that if Walther would have produced the stocks, why would they need to track the wood pieces internally as they went to different departments in the factory? If that was the case, why would an outsourcing supplier need to track their supplies to Walther. Do you think they supplied Walther with an invoice listing all the stocks and numbers? Then Walther would have to do the same thing when the wood came into their inventory. But that is what you at first didn't think they wanted to do.

Perhaps the numbers are assembly marks bearing the notation of the factory ID number of the respective Walther employee who did something to the stock? Walther did make their stocks

Thanks for your input

I appreciate your well studied perspective, particularly with all your study of Walther.

My thoughts and logic as best as I can respond:

Why would Walther need to track individual stocks internally if they made them? And yes I certainly believe they had the capability to produce their own stocks but due to other production may have out sourced.

If out sourced, sub contractor would need to track for purposes of quality control and perhaps to provide Walther with means to file claims on any that warped, cracked, etc after delivered. I did not mean to infer that I have drawn the conclusion that these were out sourced.
However, if these number show up on other Z-M maker's guns, that points to that possibility.
Like most things relative to production of the DSM outside Mauser, a lot of it appears to have been intentionally "cloaked"

Or in either of the above cases may have been relative to tracking stocks for quality control purposes, correlation to lots of wood, kiln, processes etc.

The theory you present about it being an assembler or inspector was something else I consider as possibility but have yet to have the same number reported on two guns, so think that unlikely.

May never sort it out. Kinda makes my head hurt contemplating the possibilities.

I also have trouble conveying my meaning with the written word, failed to some extent here in that regard.

At any rate, fairly convinced these are not rack numbers or local inventory property number applied post factory by the user. That was my previous assumption.

Soliciting contrasting or other opinions is precisely why I did this post.

And thank you very much for your well studied perspective.

In fact I wish some significant others who are well studied would chime in on other opinons I have or may state on the DSM.

Finally.

Walther #11260 D police accepted sling slot 423.

Bob in Ohio, can you take a photo of your 423 and I will do likewise.

Jim, with the close proximity (10 apart) of our two guns with 423, perhaps there is some validity to the idea that the number identified a batch of similarly produced stocks, either out of Walther's stock shop or an outsource?

I think this is a good clue

Yes that makes sense.

Lot number seems logical with those two guns that close. Whether on paper kept with the kiln and stock blanks as they traveled for shaping, sanding etc, it would have been necessary to track individual lots (not individual stocks) at least through the kiln process. That they appear on finished stocks adds to the mystery. Naturally applied subsequent to shaping and cutting the sling slot in. So these were applied to the finished stock. That is the aspect of this that to me gives some creedence to the possibility of the stock coming from outside source. Walther would have been able to track back to the kiln by other means if all this was under their own control. The wood type, supplier of raw timber, and drying process would be the source of most problems with warping, cracking, knots, so forth. If these were lot numbers, my logic is this would provide Walther with means to seek compensation for defective stocks. There are always some rejects in solid walnut stock manufacture.

Most signficant thing I think we can now conclude is these were not rack or local inventory numbers applied by the end user and were applied by Walther at the factory for some reason.

So I have broken one of my own paradigms as I erroneously stated opinion in the past that was what I "thought" these were.

Thank you for checking.

Good pictures of those two gun's stocks would be appreciated to lay out that evidence.

Here is 423 in Ohio...

JoeW said:

Bob in Ohio, can you take a photo of your 423 and I will do likewise.

Click to expand...

Sorry for the delay in getting these pictures for you Jim.

Thank you

great picture thanks for the trouble and weighing in on what this may indicate

Jim, if the numbers were marked after cutting and fitting, it would have to be inhouse as you noted. But why wouldn't Walther use the same lot numbering procedure on their commercial stocks. I took apart a Walther Sportmodell looking for some numbers and all I found was the penciled serial on the stock and handguard


and an interesting "Revision" mark by the action cut.



Would the production of DSMs require some special measurement or control?

Barrel Channel markings

All I have taken down were only serialed to the gun is this manner.

Have never observed that revision stamp, interesting.

Perhaps when the machine inletting required adjustment was applied on assembly? Your guess good as mine but naturally does indicate was not "good to go" as it came from ? stock shop or supplier maybe?

More to ponder that will likely never be conclusive but is another clue.

That's what's fun about this though.

Walther had a Revisionsraumen in the plant as shown in the anniversary catalog. I guess I could pull apart #23606 and see if it is marked this way too.

mauser99 said:

I doug my little safe queen out.. I think this rifle has the honor of being the oldest one in my collection.. And one of the first trainers I ever bought. It was complete and near mint right down to the muzzle cover and sling.. It also has numbers stamped in both sides. I hope this doesnt send jim off on another quest..


SERIAL # 58144 slot # 199 I see a slight creep up from Dennys rifle. in the slot # but it doesnt creep up the same numericaly.

Click to expand...

From an RIA Auction catalog, Walther DSM 34 #55299 marked in sling slot with 119 and 23.

My consecutive Walther Sportmodell had no receiver well markings.