Third Party Press

saw back, help needed

Amberg

Senior Member
Hello,
took some photos of this strange saw back at a local gun show.
What is it?
Thanks for your help.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5073_.jpg
    IMG_5073_.jpg
    60.8 KB · Views: 58
  • IMG_5075_.jpg
    IMG_5075_.jpg
    155.9 KB · Views: 39
  • IMG_5076_.jpg
    IMG_5076_.jpg
    274.3 KB · Views: 51
  • IMG_5078_.jpg
    IMG_5078_.jpg
    118.4 KB · Views: 38
  • IMG_5079_.jpg
    IMG_5079_.jpg
    90.5 KB · Views: 52
  • IMG_5080_.jpg
    IMG_5080_.jpg
    187.6 KB · Views: 39
  • IMG_5082_.jpg
    IMG_5082_.jpg
    292.7 KB · Views: 39
The construction looks like an Austrian M95 bayonet (but obviously made in Germany). Strange. Thanks for posting, curious if anyone can shed some light!
 
Well not to be a nervous Nelly, but I do not like it much, for one the only German maker I have heard of is Ernst Busch, a Solingen firm and they are reportedly marked C/17, but sawback in 1917? What is this other marking under the cypher? Doesn't look much like the Busch examples I have seen either.. I looked up John Walters comments on the variation, less than excited about his thoughts too. He seems to think some German soldiers might have carried Austrian rifles in Italy, I rather doubt it, but his connection of Württemberg and Rommel's unit is less than convincing imo.

Anyway, as the only bayonets that I know of that Mauser made were the Sg98/05, and they are marked quite differently, this is a rather suspect bayonet. I will see if Carter has anything on these M95 bayonets made by Germany, but my guess is some huckster used Mauser's well known name to make a rare bayonet, fake sawbacks are known also.
 
Well not to be a nervous Nelly, but I do not like it much, for one the only German maker I have heard of is Ernst Busch, a Solingen firm and they are reportedly marked C/17, but sawback in 1917? What is this other marking under the cypher? Doesn't look much like the Busch examples I have seen either.. I looked up John Walters comments on the variation, less than excited about his thoughts too. He seems to think some German soldiers might have carried Austrian rifles in Italy, I rather doubt it, but his connection of Württemberg and Rommel's unit is less than convincing imo.

Anyway, as the only bayonets that I know of that Mauser made were the Sg98/05, and they are marked quite differently, this is a rather suspect bayonet. I will see if Carter has anything on these M95 bayonets made by Germany, but my guess is some huckster used Mauser's well known name to make a rare bayonet, fake sawbacks are known also.

Maybe I'm crazy, but that looks like a "15" to me, not a "17".
 
Well I could find nothing in Carter, but found a tidbit on the M95 from Mike Welser in an old Kaiserzeit - attached - I am pretty sure this
"Mauser AG" is not right, between the way the name is applied, the sawback, the fuller style, the heavy wear & tear, I think someone just took a minimally marked Austrian and marked it with a cool "Mauser" trademark to enhance the value.

But, this is not my main interest, I have a lot of material on German variations 1870's-1945, but not so much these oddballs variations.
 

Attachments

  • Mike Welser Kaiserzeit 1983 Austrian Bayo1.jpg
    Mike Welser Kaiserzeit 1983 Austrian Bayo1.jpg
    269.3 KB · Views: 31
  • Mike Welser Kaiserzeit 1983 Austrian Bayos2.jpg
    Mike Welser Kaiserzeit 1983 Austrian Bayos2.jpg
    193.9 KB · Views: 21
Looks C/17 to me.

Besides, 1915 is too early to be plausible, most collaborative efforts between German-KuK were 1916-1918 (Rumania, Italy, Austrian troops to France, where they weren't too spectacular I might add..).

Anyway, I could find very little besides a few examples sold previously, all Busch examples, some brief comments by Welser and what is in Walters. Perhaps the best angle would be for you to work from the MO angle, see if they made other bayonets besides the Sg98/05 1917-1918, from my understanding it was a special situation and MO generally didn't make bayonets. When contracted they probably used other commercial firms, like Simson or WKC?

Maybe I'm crazy, but that looks like a "15" to me, not a "17".
 
Here is something Jon Speed wrote in his CG book about bayonets, says 1914-1918 production, I have never seen anything other than Sg98/05 and only dated 1915-1918 (1915 not too common compared to 1916-1918), all with the full name applied, the cypher C/15-18 over acceptance. Even their scabbards are usually sporting the full name/cross, never abbreviated "Mauser AG"

Anyway, for what it is worth CB too:

WaPrüf2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member


USA
801 PostsPosted - 03/07/2007 : 3:18:24 PM


WWI Mauser-marked bayonets were made by the Unionwerke Mea in Feuerbach.
Source: anon, Geschichte der Mauser-Werke, Berlin, VDI, 1938, p.107.
Carter didn't catch this when he did his bk on the S98/02 and S98/05.
I couldn't find any references to Mauser-marked ersatzes in his two books covering them.
I didn't see the E-bay listing; can't comment on that.



 

Attachments

  • 50 - bayonets.jpg
    50 - bayonets.jpg
    90.4 KB · Views: 7
Last edited:
Sorry Amberg, the Mauser maker's mark as well as the 1915 acceptance marks on the back of the blade are recently applied modern markings. Especially obvious is the maker's mark, Mauser never used that form of marking on any of the 98/05 bayonets and scabbards (they marked both) that they produced during the Great War. Also, the sawback teeth are too shallow to be effective cutters and are fake as well. I'm sorry, I hope you didn't buy it, a number of less experienced bayonet collectors have been taken in by these.
 
Hello the piece is a czechoslovak Vz.23 short bayonet, with removed markings and added fake stamp of Mauser and sawback, it has not logic as the blade edge is on the barell side, so the sawback is now under positioned. Is well known pakistani fake for US gis to make a good bringback from Iraq and Afghanistan, unfortunally the turk S98/05 are saled out.
 
I'm sorry, I hope you didn't buy it, a number of less experienced bayonet collectors have been taken in by these.

Thanks to all!
No, I did not waste any money on it. I only took the time to take some photos.
Thanks again!
Wolf
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top