Third Party Press

Question on repro frog...

Slater said:
Does the below repro match any known configuration or is it fanciful?:

http://worldwarsupply.com/store/item/276/details
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Slater,

The reproduction is patterned after a genuine style of late war bayonet frog. The description is inaccurate however indicating these are tropical or in anyway related to the Deutsche Afrika Korps. This style of frog is documented and identified as number AC563 in the book Bayonet Belt Frogs by the late Anthony Carter. The original frogs begin to appear in 1944 and have nothing to do with tropical service. They are constructed of a green or green/brown cloth body with a leather front pouch. Collectors have dubbed these "Breadbag Frogs" due to the similarity of the course cloth material. The leather pouch is usually fastened to the body with four hollow back steel or alloy rivets. The simple folded over belt loop area is usually secured with two like rivets. Reinforced stitching is often noted to be with an odd orange colored cotton thread although green, black, and sometimes white thread is also encountered. As you might imagine this type of construction does not produce a very sturdy product and these are not thought to be military issue items. The construction is hardly adequate to support the weight of a bayonet and scabbard and would not have held up successfully to the rigors of combat. Examples are frequently encountered with ripped, damaged cloth or leather and with rivets missing or pulled through the material.

The reproduction is a fair copy. It is difficult to fake the proper cloth material and the color of the both the backing material and the leather pouch are too dark. Also spurious is the maker's information ink stamped to the reverse. I have never seen one of these frogs that is maker marked. There are other subtle differences as well. There is a post in the photographic reference section that shows a couple of original examples of this pattern frog:

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?7502-Late-War-German-Bayonet-Frogs

The question remains, if these frogs were not military issue what were they used for? They are unquestionably period and many have been located with late war commercial or unmarked S84/98 bayonets. A significant number have been noted matched with the late 1944 period "scales & script" Alcoso, Solingen commercial trademarked bayonets. Some collectors feel these bayonets and frogs were produced for political or civil service organizations. Other theories include factory guards or some similar commercial security function. Hopefully, at some point an original period photograph of one of these frogs in wear will be discovered which may helps answer these questions. These frogs are scarce and examples in clean undamaged condition can be difficult to locate and command prices several times that of a standard leather piece. Hope this helps .....
 
Slater said:
On the topic of repro frogs, what qualifies the below example as a "Luftwaffe" frog? The color?
Click to expand...

Yes, at least in theory. Many S84/98 frogs with Luftwaffe property and/or unit stamps are brown in color. This being different from the usual (and more common) black in color frogs. Although some collectors feel that all brown frogs are Luftwaffe this assertion is incorrect. Frogs dyed or finished in many shades and colors were issued to all branches of service. This becomes even more prevalent when dealing with anything produced after perhaps the middle of 1943. Late war frogs are often encountered in natural leather or even pigskin without any finishing coloration. Brown frogs that have been dyed black to only the front body and pouch are also relatively common. My thoughts only - Lance O. Adams ......
 
That "Luftwaffe" brown frog appears to be made from rough-out leather. Accurate for a wartime frog?
 
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