C.G. Haenel Suhl 1917 7834q

At long last I found a decent C.G. Haenel. For being the most common on the Suhls, Haenel has proved most elusive for me. Anyway, I like that it is a 1917, better to compare it with my '17 Sauer.

Overall it appears to be a nice example. The rear screw is stuck and when I get that out I will post the barrel code. The acceptance on the metal is very clear on most parts, and I tried to photograph every stamp clearly. Many small parts are lacking acceptance. It looks to me that the stock is Haenel (c/B) made, but most of the metal parts (and aspects of the stock?) are Schilling (c/G). The sight components look to be c/O. I'm guessing c/O is Sauer, judging by the third acceptance stamp on my Sauer 1917 1620c and by the barrel acceptance on Haenel 1917 6568e. This is all speculation, based on my earlier hypothesis. (http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?4212-V-Chr-Schilling-1915&p=28587#post28587)

The handguard is mismatched and it came with a chromed K98k bolt and no cleaning rod; Right now it has an armourers bolt in it. The stock is very nice, pretty grain patterns for beech, but varnish was applied at some point and I'm still working on removing it all. I'm going to get some gel remover and try that, though I don't think I'll try anything else until I can get it out of the stock. I have been cursed with stuck screws as of late!

Here are full images: https://plus.google.com/photos/1027...ms/5890956134107730033?authkey=CIzTo73qzuziNg

C.G. HAENEL SUHL 1917

Receiver SN 7834q
Barrel SN 7834q
Front Sight SN 34
Rear Sight Leaf SN 34
Rear Sight Slider SN 34, 34, 34
Ejector Box SN 34
Trigger Sear SN (34)
Front Barrel Band SN 34
Rear Barrel Band SN 34
Trigger Guard SN 7834
Trigger Guard Screws SN 34, 34
Floor Plate SN 34
Follower SN 34
Stock SN 7834
Buttplate SN 7834
Bayonet Lug SN 34
Handguard SN 8331?
Cleaning Rod SN
Bolt body SN
Extractor SN
Safety SN
Cocking piece SN
Bolt sleeve SN
Firing pin SN

Really nice rifle! I remember seeing this one on gunbroker.

PrayingMantis said:

At long last I found a decent C.G. Haenel. For being the most common on the Suhls, Haenel has proved most elusive for me. Anyway, I like that it is a 1917, better to compare it with my '17 Sauer.

Overall it appears to be a nice example. The rear screw is stuck and when I get that out I will post the barrel code. The acceptance on the metal is very clear on most parts, and I tried to photograph every stamp clearly. Many small parts are lacking acceptance. It looks to me that the stock is Haenel (c/B) made, but most of the metal parts (and aspects of the stock?) are Schilling (c/G). The sight components look to be c/O. I'm guessing c/O is Sauer, judging by the third acceptance stamp on my Sauer 1917 1620c and by the barrel acceptance on Haenel 1917 6568e. This is all speculation, based on my earlier hypothesis. (http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?4212-V-Chr-Schilling-1915&p=28587#post28587)

The handguard is mismatched and it came with a chromed K98k bolt and no cleaning rod; Right now it has an armourers bolt in it. The stock is very nice, pretty grain patterns for beech, but varnish was applied at some point and I'm still working on removing it all. I'm going to get some gel remover and try that, though I don't think I'll try anything else until I can get it out of the stock. I have been cursed with stuck screws as of late!

Here are full images: https://plus.google.com/photos/1027...ms/5890956134107730033?authkey=CIzTo73qzuziNg

C.G. HAENEL SUHL 1917

Receiver SN 7834q
Barrel SN 7834q
Front Sight SN 34
Rear Sight Leaf SN 34
Rear Sight Slider SN 34, 34, 34
Ejector Box SN 34
Trigger Sear SN (34)
Front Barrel Band SN 34
Rear Barrel Band SN 34
Trigger Guard SN 7834
Trigger Guard Screws SN 34, 34
Floor Plate SN 34
Follower SN 34
Stock SN 7834
Buttplate SN 7834
Bayonet Lug SN 34
Handguard SN 8331?
Cleaning Rod SN
Bolt body SN
Extractor SN
Safety SN
Cocking piece SN
Bolt sleeve SN
Firing pin SN

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Well it isn't every day I get to add 3 new rifles to my Imperial database, though I had this one from the auction too, those pics were largely worthless as the seller, most sellers, take irrelevant pictures. (exception is Reisel, who while selling a good number of humpers, he does take good-decent anyway- pictures, which in my book makes him ok...)

I will check the other pics later but odds are the barrel is JPS (S&S made), most are, though not all.

BTW, while the research done might suggest one is more common than another, it is based on a miniscule population of surviving examples, so it is hardly definitive. The Suhl makers, Simson included, do not add up to a 1,000 rifles recorded (probably barely half that), probably less than Danzig or Spandau, so you should always take such speculation with a grain (pound) of salt. Even a relative few rifles, from any one maker, could change the estimates. One must remember that most of the Gewehr98's were destroyed during or after the war, contrary to lore, Germany was essentially disarmed after WWI and the vast majority of small arms she possessed in November 1918 were surrendered and destroyed (none were "reparations"), all by Germans monitored by the IAMCC and their German counterparts. While elements of German society, the military in particular but paramilitary organizations and states too, hid many rifles, they were relatively small in number. In short we will probably never know the exact numbers made, especially by the Suhl firms, they were occupied by the soviets after the war (after the US Army liberated them, we gave Suhl and much of central Germany to the soviets like fools..) and I doubt the records will ever be found, if they exist at all.

The auction pictures were pretty useless, couldn't even save them individually, and that bolt was a real eyesore. In the end I think I paid a fair price. I've seen a number of matched '16 Haenels on Gun Broker over the years, but always out of my price range; this was the first bolt mismatch I'd seen. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=343075667

I tried breakfree on the screw to no avail, next I'm going to pick up some liquid wrench and see if that does anything.

Awesome looking rifle, PM

finally got the screw out of this one, so here's the barrel code.

That was a good pick-up.

Haenel has also been the elusive G98 for me too. I've had 2 1916's, one too much m/m and the other with a sanded stock. I churned both very quickly.

Excellent Cyrus, - you are one of the more reliable collectors, most get caught up in their daily lives, but you do get the pictures done in time!

Nice barrel too, most of the consortium, so far, are like this, JPS made using BJ blanks. It is impossible to be sure who BJ is, although "J" often is an "I" in such things, but I doubt it is Bismarckhütte, which Bi usually means, - no I think it is a western steel maker, most probably BSI Bergische Stahl-Industrie-Gesellschaft Remscheid, they were biggie suppliers to Erfurt under the "BSI" abbreviation, I say this because BSI (the abbreviation) isn't used by any of the Suhl makers as a code, and one would think they would have relied upon BSI during the war (it is assured they used them in commercial production and if Erfurt relied upon them so heavily, the Consortium probably did as well…). Pre-war they were a big advertiser and one of their products were barrel blanks, and if I have confirmed only one thing in barrel coding in this period, each of the manufacturers used their own codes for blanks, hardly two are exactly alike, for the same firm, except in a few cases like Böhler.

Of course it could be another steel mill, Germany was if anything a country awash in steel making firms, they were one of the world leaders along with America and England, so the possibilities are nearly endless (especially before the rationalization of the industry in the mid-late 1920’s where many firms were consolidated). Besides, we know that German rifle companies used a diverse source for steel, Poldihütte & Böhler of course was Austrian, and MO used English steel pre-war on some of their barrels, and of course Germany occupied some of the greatest steel makers in western Europe during the war, Cockerill fell to them early on, and I am sure France lost some productive areas, though I do not know if actual steel makers fell to them when the German Army marched into France, - of course Germany already held the best parts of France's steel making country up until 1919, so I am unsure the extent of the French steel industry that was available for the Germans to utilize 1914-1918, probably insignificant during the occupation. I do know some steel firms which had ethnically French owners, and sympathies, operated in Germany’s A-L prior to the war, from recollection they had plants in Germany and France, of course united after 1919 (though being part of France in the 1930’s was not a dream relationship for any large manufacturer, especially a steel maker… leftism in France was a serious problem by the 1930’s)

Thanks, FM. I've seen some really nice Haenel's, but only on Gun Broker, where they sold for astronomical prices. This was actually the first in five years of collecting that I had a shot at.

Loewe said:

Excellent Cyrus, - you are one of the more reliable collectors, most get caught up in their daily lives, but you do get the pictures done in time![/B])

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Thanks, Paul! It's what I love to do. Buying the rifle is only about half the fun, the rest is photographing and studying it. And thanks for the great information also.

I haven't seen you around on the forums Jeff, good to see you back!

What an exceptional rifle, really a stunner in its originality and these Suhl rifles are hard to find this nice, much harder than the arsenals generally. The earlier dates, 1915-16 are tougher though... but this is as nice as Imperial Gewehr98 get.

This one also has a JPS made barrel, most do.

Excellent gewehr, thanks for sharing the pics

Jeff, let me suggest you start a new thread with the pics instead of piggybacking, so your gewehr can be posted on the Imperial Rifles picture thread.

feldmütze said:

Jeff, let me suggest you start a new thread with the pics instead of piggybacking, so your gewehr can be posted on the Imperial Rifles picture thread.

Click to expand...

Agreed, such a nice rifle as Jeff's Haenel deserves its own thread.

just a quick update. I got a nice beech handguard from CM0087 and fitted it onto this Haenel. I also finished removing the old varnish and oiled the stock.

Rifle looks awesome, PM! The colour matches quite well.

Glad it went on/to another Haenel owner lol

Cheers
Chris

Stock Cartouche

Hi all, I am a new member. I was researching a recent acquisition when I found this forum. I have a G98, Oberndorf, 1917. My question is; What does the large B mean, on the right side of the stock, below the Imperial proofs. Mine also is marked with it. I know an H designates Heer or army, but what is the B?

Ole, the B is for the stock's wood Buche (beech).

Let me suggest you start another thread regarding your '17 MO. Hopefully you've correctly cleaned it and will have some good pics. Most 1917 mauser Gew98's have a Turkish past....

Welllll, I haven't cleaned it at all. It is an unrepaired, duffle cut. It does not have a Turkish history, but I have a 1918 Oberndorf which does. I haven't taken a lot of pictures of my Mausers, but perhaps, someday. I am quite far behind in this undertaking. I counted up 29, including Swedes, Argentines, Spanish, Venezualan, Chilean, Belgian, and German, all spanning from 1889 manufacture, up through the early '50s.

Make that 30. I forgot the '71 Daudeteau conversion.