Need a list of the gewehr suffixes used from a -z
- Thread starter MrHaney
- Start date
Post a picture of the serial. Suffixes changed manufacturer to manufacturer and sometime have variation year to year.
There is no list, nor would one be practical, for each manufacturers suffix fonts. Further, not all blocks have been documented, especially in the pre-war years. Even some blocks can't be deciphered due to the fact not all of the "similar" blocks are recorded (e & l are often similar; you need both to decipher the other in many cases). For instance some suffixes are very similar and unless you have the full range of possibilities, you can't determine which is which.
In Danzig/1917 case, there are no confirmed, clear cut examples, from the following blocks- "h", "L", "p", "u", or "z", but we do have several in dual suffix ranges ("hh", "LL") and in 1916 some of these exist and comparisons can be made, but they are not always exact in style year to year.
Below is a "n" block from Danzig/17, it belongs to MauserBill and he wouldn't mind me using it here, but I do not have a “good” picture of a "c" block I can share, there are 6 recorded, most are not great pictures, either lousy angles or I am unsure of owner-source and unless it is a friend or an auction I try not to post them unless necessary. PeterK owns one also; he sent me a datasheet but no clear picture to use. There are half a dozen "cc" blocks that belong to collectors I know well, but several are snipers (apparently the cc block is a sniper block that year), but people are touchy about snipers and do not like their rifles shown publically, - for obvious reasons.
BTW, "c" looks just like a normal "c" and "n" is also quite distinctive, neither should be a problem deciphering. (sometimes "m" and "n" can be confused, but a "c" and "n"? You sure it isn't another character? Or am I misreading your post?)
There is no list, nor would one be practical, for each manufacturers suffix fonts. Further, not all blocks have been documented, especially in the pre-war years. Even some blocks can't be deciphered due to the fact not all of the "similar" blocks are recorded (e & l are often similar; you need both to decipher the other in many cases). For instance some suffixes are very similar and unless you have the full range of possibilities, you can't determine which is which.
In Danzig/1917 case, there are no confirmed, clear cut examples, from the following blocks- "h", "L", "p", "u", or "z", but we do have several in dual suffix ranges ("hh", "LL") and in 1916 some of these exist and comparisons can be made, but they are not always exact in style year to year.
Below is a "n" block from Danzig/17, it belongs to MauserBill and he wouldn't mind me using it here, but I do not have a “good” picture of a "c" block I can share, there are 6 recorded, most are not great pictures, either lousy angles or I am unsure of owner-source and unless it is a friend or an auction I try not to post them unless necessary. PeterK owns one also; he sent me a datasheet but no clear picture to use. There are half a dozen "cc" blocks that belong to collectors I know well, but several are snipers (apparently the cc block is a sniper block that year), but people are touchy about snipers and do not like their rifles shown publically, - for obvious reasons.
BTW, "c" looks just like a normal "c" and "n" is also quite distinctive, neither should be a problem deciphering. (sometimes "m" and "n" can be confused, but a "c" and "n"? You sure it isn't another character? Or am I misreading your post?)
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You can't take a straight on picture of the serial number? Looks "c" or "e" to me, the "e" is very distinctive also, easy to differentiate from an "L" for this maker-date.
Try to take a clear straight line picture of the serial, the RR too might help, though typically variations to the RR are gradual, they might be differences in a single year, but they usually are not much variation in narrow ranges. I would have to check in Danzig's case, I have a lot of rifles recorded for Danzig though, so if you do a RR, I should be able to tell if it is typical of a range.
Try to take a clear straight line picture of the serial, the RR too might help, though typically variations to the RR are gradual, they might be differences in a single year, but they usually are not much variation in narrow ranges. I would have to check in Danzig's case, I have a lot of rifles recorded for Danzig though, so if you do a RR, I should be able to tell if it is typical of a range.
Hard to say with these pictures, the metal is pretty porous too, which make it hard to read. I would go with an 'e' block myself, for two reasons, one it looks more like an "e" to me and in the "e" block there are a several sniper rigs known. While I am no authority on snipers, certain blocks seem to have them and this hole pattern is similar to the MO "n" blocks that came out of Turkey. Further your serial has a "Q" prefix, which is typical of Turkish used rifles.
Does this have an import marking on it?
Here is one of Reisel's auction of a Danzig/17 "e" block. It is also drilled, though the bridge has a different hole pattern than yours (which is typical of the MO/17s). A "c" block is similar, but with out the loop at the top and in these pictures, it looks like this suffix might have the "e" loop at top. The RR is typically the same from the "c" block through the "o" block, then it changes, so the RR will not help in this regards most probably.
Does this have an import marking on it?
Here is one of Reisel's auction of a Danzig/17 "e" block. It is also drilled, though the bridge has a different hole pattern than yours (which is typical of the MO/17s). A "c" block is similar, but with out the loop at the top and in these pictures, it looks like this suffix might have the "e" loop at top. The RR is typically the same from the "c" block through the "o" block, then it changes, so the RR will not help in this regards most probably.
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1917 danzig sniper with the suffix e .
HI
I thank you for all your help. I questioned the Q? I did not know of the meaning of it until now. So i have a Turkish sniper in the e suffix. I took the rifle all apart and it does not have a import mark. The disk unit marking are German . So it was turned over to the Turks ?
Best Regards
Bob
HI
I thank you for all your help. I questioned the Q? I did not know of the meaning of it until now. So i have a Turkish sniper in the e suffix. I took the rifle all apart and it does not have a import mark. The disk unit marking are German . So it was turned over to the Turks ?
Best Regards
Bob
The auction was from June 30 2012, I only saved the pictures. I have a few more but they are not great pictures. I will post them all. While the bridge hole pattern is different than the MO/17 Turks it seems, it is consistent with another Danzig/17 bridge, which has 5 holes in the rear base.
It is only my speculation as to the origins of the rifle, you might wait for Wolfgang to show up here, he usually does between his busy schedule, or take it to the sniper forum, he goes there too and some other sniper rifle collectors go there also and they might be able to illuminate the topic for you. There are several threads on Turkish snipers; so far all are MO/1917 in the "n" block, though it is well known Turkey received rifles from other manufacturers also. While MO is recognized as the primary supplier, through Spandau, rifles made by other firms often show up with signs of Turkish use.
Further, these sniper rifles are speculated issued to the German soldiers that served in Turkey, several units did, and then at the end of the war the Germans left them behind, which is probably what happened. But, some think they were issued to Turkish units also. Which isn't impossible of course, the Germans did supply the Turks with all means possible to contribute to tying down Entente forces in this backwater theater.
Personally, I think it isn't likely many were issued to Turkish troops, perhaps some specially trained men, but while the average Turkish soldier was a good fighter, when well led, they were not exactly the best candidates for precision equipment. At least without suitable selection and training, - obviously if Russians in World War II could be found in number to become snipers, Turks could as well, it would just require suitable selection and training of men. Which requires time, - which was limited by the time a supply line was established and the time the Turks surrendered.
Anyway, the rifle has some characteristics of the Turkish service rifles, including the bridge pattern and prefix; I think it is worth pursuing the possibility with those that are more familiar with sniper rifles.
It is only my speculation as to the origins of the rifle, you might wait for Wolfgang to show up here, he usually does between his busy schedule, or take it to the sniper forum, he goes there too and some other sniper rifle collectors go there also and they might be able to illuminate the topic for you. There are several threads on Turkish snipers; so far all are MO/1917 in the "n" block, though it is well known Turkey received rifles from other manufacturers also. While MO is recognized as the primary supplier, through Spandau, rifles made by other firms often show up with signs of Turkish use.
Further, these sniper rifles are speculated issued to the German soldiers that served in Turkey, several units did, and then at the end of the war the Germans left them behind, which is probably what happened. But, some think they were issued to Turkish units also. Which isn't impossible of course, the Germans did supply the Turks with all means possible to contribute to tying down Entente forces in this backwater theater.
Personally, I think it isn't likely many were issued to Turkish troops, perhaps some specially trained men, but while the average Turkish soldier was a good fighter, when well led, they were not exactly the best candidates for precision equipment. At least without suitable selection and training, - obviously if Russians in World War II could be found in number to become snipers, Turks could as well, it would just require suitable selection and training of men. Which requires time, - which was limited by the time a supply line was established and the time the Turks surrendered.
Anyway, the rifle has some characteristics of the Turkish service rifles, including the bridge pattern and prefix; I think it is worth pursuing the possibility with those that are more familiar with sniper rifles.
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