Third Party Press

Spanish Model 1891 Cavalry Carbine...Span Am Veteran?

pzjgr

EOD - bombs and bullets
I picked this little beauty up earlier this year....I picked this up in conjunction with a really nice Kar 88...I just really liked the look and condition...once I got it and did some research, I find that these aren't all that common. If my research was correct, Loewe only made 5000 of these under contract from Spain from leftover parts from an unfulfilled Argentine contract. That is why they are in 7,65 Mauser, as opposed to 7mm. Eventually Spain sent almost all of these to Cuba, and many are likely Span-Am captures eventually sold to Bannerman's...

In any case it is in really decent shape IMHO...stock is beautiful, and metal is nicely patina'd but in good shape. The ring seems to be original. There are no import marks....

The crest is a little light, and the Berlin rondel in the butt is faint, but readable in person. The only thing I can find that's odd is the bolt is un-numbered, but seems proper, and the patina and finish match the rest of the metal.

I really like this little carbine, it goes great next to the Kar 88. And like I said, seems like they aren't too common...
 

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A few more....
 

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Last few....

PS I posted it here, since it says Mauser rifles 1870 to 1918, it doesn't specify German...but if this should go elsewhere, feel free to move it...
 

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Oh no, we aren't moving it... anything about Ludw. Loewe AG is staying put.

I love these carbines too and this is a nice one, about as nice as they come, but I do not know much about them, other than what I learnt from John Wall and his posts he made on Gunboards-Mauser, but you can be sure anything he and JackC (mman) wrote regarding the carbines is factual. They have studied this aspect of Loewe seriously and probably know as much as is known.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?307894

Now you need to get a Loewe Gewehr88!

I picked this little beauty up earlier this year....I picked this up in conjunction with a really nice Kar 88...I just really liked the look and condition...once I got it and did some research, I find that these aren't all that common. If my research was correct, Loewe only made 5000 of these under contract from Spain from leftover parts from an unfulfilled Argentine contract. That is why they are in 7,65 Mauser, as opposed to 7mm. Eventually Spain sent almost all of these to Cuba, and many are likely Span-Am captures eventually sold to Bannerman's...

In any case it is in really decent shape IMHO...stock is beautiful, and metal is nicely patina'd but in good shape. The ring seems to be original. There are no import marks....

The crest is a little light, and the Berlin rondel in the butt is faint, but readable in person. The only thing I can find that's odd is the bolt is un-numbered, but seems proper, and the patina and finish match the rest of the metal.

I really like this little carbine, it goes great next to the Kar 88. And like I said, seems like they aren't too common...
 
Thanks Paul, yeah, I thought I'd post it over here, since they seem to be not seen too often. The Kar 88 I picked up was a VC Schilling, so at least it a Suhl maker...I posted it in the Mannlicher forums over at GB...Double Chevaulleger unit marked too...
 
Hi pzjgr,
In 1893 the Spaniards found themselves embroiled in the First Melillan war with the Rif tribes of Morocco. They needed arms quickly and approached Loewe about procuring them. From what I remember there were m91 Argentine carbines already on the manufacturing line and Loewe brokered a deal in which the Argies sold them to the Spanish. The war ended before the carbines could be dispatched to Morocco and they wound up with "El Ejercito Espanol en Ultramar" in Cuba where the Yanks got them. They are very scarce and a great find.

Len
 
The Spanish had a lot of trouble in Morocco, here is a map of a later conflict, unfortunately I had to reduce it to post here, but it is still readable. The magazine (Infantry Journal) this came out of had a lengthy article on the conflicts there. Quite brutal and unforgiving, but of course colonialism is never a pleasant experience, neither for the colony, nor the colonial power in the long run.

Germany doesn't know how lucky it was getting out of the colony business in 1918, - about the only good thing to come out of the Great War for Germany.
 

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Oh no, we aren't moving it... anything about Ludw. Loewe AG is staying put.

Now you need to get a Loewe Gewehr88!

Paul, actually I do have a Loewe Gew 88...here is the link to my post over ob GB...pics aren't great on this one, if you can use something specific for research or your own edification, let me know, I'll get some for you..

Its a Turk, but really, these have some real history behind them once you learn about them...German service, most likely Turk service in WWI (maybe the Dardenelles, Gallipoli...who knows?)...de-activated by the Brits (by taking all the bolts), then re-activated by Turkey contracting CZ for new bolts...

Just picked up a similiar one this weekend, an Amberg 1894...you want barrel markings?
 
I do not see a link?

Sure, I would like to see all BC regardless of maker-year, these 88's are interesting because I have so few and they seem to have codes different from Modell98 rifles, - I am not sure how successful research will be into these, Germany's steel industry is a complex topic and a person could spend their entire life studying it (same could be said of Englands and America's), - and I have but scratched the surface on the topic in my library and files.
 
I think that is a Turk barrel on that one...some were re-barreled by the Turks, some were not.

Since I just picked up the Amberg, I haven't had it apart, so I don't know if it has the original German barrel or not, but I know my Loewe does...
 
Yup, Turk barrel (super), bolt (no CZ marks; Turk moons on every little part, self matching), and one rear swivel screw. All other parts have Imperial German markings with non matching numbers save the receiver and the barrel jacket. $50 at Kittery Trading Post in 1996.





T
 
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Paul, here are some barrel marking shots for you....I think I will post pics of the Amberg in a separate thread....These are the Loewe...only the barrel and receiver match on it...lots of weird markings, a whole series of letters...
 

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And here is the Amberg...on this one the barrel, receiver, and barrel jacket match...I found something interesting I'll elaborate on in the separate thread...
 

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Some really neat pictures, I like the FP on that Loewe barrel, looks pretty radical, like it’s pissed off or something! I have so few recorded I am not sure whether it is worth starting another project, - but it is tempting... The barrel is obviously original on the Loewe, the acceptance, but what do you think the serial is? 375 S or 1375 S?

Thanks for taking the time to do this though, looks like a lot of work compared to the Modell98!

Paul, here are some barrel marking shots for you....I think I will post pics of the Amberg in a separate thread....These are the Loewe...only the barrel and receiver match on it...lots of weird markings, a whole series of letters...
 
I meant to also say that this picture, on the Amberg, is interesting due to the "GF" markings, I couldn't find the piece Joe Steen wrote for the MRJ, I think he did, but I can't find it, but I did find his KCN/1996 article on the topic (If I can find the MRJ piece I will post it here, but the KCN piece is copyright to another, for those that have some KCN's, it is October 1996.)

Apparently this is a marking found only on Amberg made or reworked rifles prior to the Modell98 (has not been observed on the Modell98 variations so far as I know). It is always on barrels, cylinders, bolts (pressure or stressed parts) and usually doesn't have military proofing on the component. (in this case it has acceptance but I do not see a proof)

Anyway, if you do come across another example, any rifle or pistol with this "GF" then it would be good to see pictures of it. Joe is good about discovering these little oddities and this is a good one to keep in mind.
 

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Glad you like them...interesting stuff about the GF...If I come across anymore, I'll let you know.

I'll take a closer look at that serial, you're right, it does look like there might be a ghostly 1 in front of it...It was the middle of the night when I took the pics, up in my mancave...time is at a real premium lately so the middle of the night is the only time I get to play with my toys....
 

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