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waffenwerke mauser oberndorf 1902 all matching depot rebuild

Treiber

Member
I'am posting a few pictures of a gewehr 98 depot built all matching, only the stock is sandit and varnished in the past so all the stamps on the outside of the stock are gone.
The marking “FR” in a triangle is something I have never seen before, maybe somebody here has a idea what it means?
What also looks strange to me is the serial numbers begins with a “K”, anyone have some idea’s why that is?
But it still is a interesting gewehr 98 built in 1902 rebuilt and upgraded in a depot.
I hope my pictures tribute to the forum because there will be some more if that is oke.
 

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Great rifle!...That rifle has been around! Looks to have been captured by Poland (K added to serial number,polish eagle added to the receiver and the FR mark, and polish markings on the barrel circle Z) and recaptured by Germany...Another member who knows much more about these rifles than me will add a bunch more info...Thanks for sharing!
 
Great rifle...lots of character. German ww1 then gifted to Poland and built up as a polish wz98a long rifle. Then converted to 98m by the germans. This one has a not often seen simson made rear sight base. S with
e/4 Wa. Then the ramp is very early saure marked S/147. Most all 98m's have s/42 marked rear sight components. Nice to see something different for a change.
 
What a wonderful rifle, I am not sure where to start really as it has so many interesting things about it.

For one, it is an early Mauser Oberndorf, very rare to find them, only 3 other MO/02 have been recorded, plus one from eGun that I think is fraudulent. While MO was the only maker to make the Gewehr98 every year 1898-1918, they didn't make many early on, - same deal with DWM who made very few rifles, most of which went to the KM (navy)

Most of the markings, the triangle on top of the receiver and the markings on the barrel are all Polish, the Poles seized German assets wherever possible when the Germans pulled out and they disarmed German troops passing through their territory if possible, - none were gifted - though it is very probable that Danzig made some rifles for them, period reports state Danzig contracted for the Polish state in the interim, waiting for a final decision on the fate of the old Arsenal, but they do not mention what they contracted for. I can guarantee you that the Germans did not "gift" the Poles anything, - other than some bullets from the muzzle of a rifle. They had vicious border disputes, the British and French had to get involved it got so bad. Not until the soviets came up with a "final solution" was the German-Polish border issue solved, - naturally they forced the Germans westward, with brutality that rivaled anything the nazis ever did...

You also have some really nice ordnance spare parts on the rifle, the Simson trademark (S in a pyramid-mountain actually - inside a circle) with the e/4 acceptance stamp. This combination is not common, usually the trademark is with e/6, but the transition isn't exactly known. Fact is although BSW was under a trustee situation after 1933, the Simson name was carried for sometime after, along with BSW.

Anyway, a really nice rifle with a lot of history going for it, many like these Polish refurb rifles, especially when they are this original.

I'am posting a few pictures of a gewehr 98 depot built all matching, only the stock is sandit and varnished in the past so all the stamps on the outside of the stock are gone.
The marking “FR” in a triangle is something I have never seen before, maybe somebody here has a idea what it means?
What also looks strange to me is the serial numbers begins with a “K”, anyone have some idea’s why that is?
But it still is a interesting gewehr 98 built in 1902 rebuilt and upgraded in a depot.
I hope my pictures tribute to the forum because there will be some more if that is oke.
 
Last edited:
Great Rifle!!!

Here are a few pics of my german to polish to german gew98. Same early sauer rear sight base.

I notice the substance on the bands and TG in your pictures. While it could be easily written off as something to do with the stock refinishing, it looks like the same substance is on parts of my rifle that were left in the white (and mine has not been refinished). RyanE first pointed this out to me, and I believe he has a rifle with a similar substance. Maybe he will post pics. Anybody have any ideas?
 

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stock markings

There no stock markings on the stock accept for the number under barrel, that is why I think that the stock has been refinished in the past.
The substance on the stock is a mystery for me I really thought it was done after the war because of the lack of stamps on the stock.
There ought to be acceptance stamps on the stock? Or do I have the wrong thoughts
 
I have seen this type of coating many times before; I think it is period applied also, though I do not know what it is or the purpose of its application.

OP, yes, this rifle should have a depot marking somewhere, usually the wrist, sometimes on the side of the buttstock or along the bottom. Oftentimes the stocks original markings (factory) will be sanded by the depot, often they are weak but the depot markings more clear, sometimes they are small or worn if they are at the wear points (wrist etc..) If it is lacking, it is probably worn away or sanded. You do not show these areas, so I can't guess at what is the case, but it should be marked and they are most often HZa Spandau upgraded. It has one of their wide rear bands, which could be a sign that it was done by them; - does it have a take down in the buttstock? How is the buttplate marked?

If you can, do pictures of the stock, particularly any markings there, the buttplate & take down also?
 
more pictures

I can only find the g98 number on the stock that is the only one so far.
If the marks are sand it out at the depot would they not be replace with some of the depot?but if the finish is original that means never been there after it left the depot.
I guess mistakes where made then to, all is possible.
 

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Yes, that is why I wrote this below, - the depots often sanded the stocks, the factory markings are often weak and hard to make out, but the depot markings are usually clear, or at least more clear than the factory markings:

OP, yes, this rifle should have a depot marking somewhere, usually the wrist, sometimes on the side of the buttstock or along the bottom. Oftentimes the stocks original markings (factory) will be sanded by the depot, often they are weak but the depot markings more clear, sometimes they are small or worn if they are at the wear points (wrist etc..) If it is lacking, it is probably worn away or sanded.

Looking at the pictures of the stock I think the stock is problematic, possibly period sanded, but if so sanded again since, as it looks harshly sanded to me and that isn't typical, not even of Polish stocks reworked by the Germans (often Polish markings can be clearly made out when reworked). Also the application of this varnish, coating or substance that is on some of the metal parts is over this harshly sanded stock. Regarding this coating, when I said original to the period, I didn't mean to the depot, but to the period (this topic has been discussed on Gunboards-Mauser recently, a collector, in Norway I believe, owns two rifles with a similar coating. It looks like it might be period applied). Perhaps in the other cases it is or isn't original to the period, every rifle should be judged individually, but I see no reason for a depot to bother with such an application. If applied it probably was done at the unit level and for a purpose. In this case it looks like the coating is applied sloppily on the stock and just found its way onto some metal parts, whether it is period is doubtful, not because of its sloppy application so much as the appearance of the stock, it looks significantly sanded to me, far more than typical and that would have been done after the war in my opinion and as the coating is over the harshly sanded stock it would have been postwar applied in this case too.

Of course that is only an opinion.

I will also say that BigD has a rifle similar to this one, an Amberg/17 shown above, some similarities; it is Su HZa marked, and would be a good example to what this rifles stock should have looked like. I do not own the rifle and it hasn't been shown on the forums so far as I am aware, so I can't post his pictures, but if he has the interest perhaps he will show you a rifle that probably had a stock much like yours should have looked like during the war. Before it was harshly sanded and varnished.

BTW, I am not trying to be disagreeable about your rifle, it is a nice rifle, a rather rare rifle, but I do not want to give you the wrong impression of my opinion. Here we all speak our minds and try to be truthful about the rifles collectors bring to us, - some forums focus on manners rather than truth, - both have a place, but here we place truthful opinions over courtesy, though try to be both where ever possible..

If the marks are sand it out at the depot would they not be replace with some of the depot?
 
“Off topic”

I think I have to explain myself, it’s in no way my intension to insult you or anybody else and I appreciate your opinion.
There English is not my native language there will be lots of mistakes in grammar even wrong choice of words that means a lot of my answers will be short and maybe misunderstood, you guys me always correct me I can only learn from it, but do not feel insulted by a answer or question from me sometimes it’s just a misunderstanding or the language barrier.

“on topic”
I think we share the same opinion on the stock, it is sanded very harshly and coated later on.
The number under the barrel has the correct number on it so I guess it is the original stock only very mistreated.
Still it has great history to it, if it only was capable of speech what a stories it would tell.
Thanks for your honesty and sharing your knowledge and I hope we have more discussions in the future.

I hope to post a Danzig 1917 all matching next week, if there is time.
 
I appreciate your thoughts, you never offended anyone in your posts, it is just that I knew you were not a primary English speaking person by your posts and wanted to be clear that my opinions were not intended to offend you or disparage your rifle. I like it actually.

We look forward to the Danzig/17, they can be interesting rifles too! Welcome to the forum and I hope you return often!
 

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