Third Party Press

XRFacts , Forums and Censorship

It's been over seven years and after all the XRF lid testing failures and the collapse of XRFacts, David "maui" May and Kelly Hicks still won't acknowledge their failures and mistakes. I think XRFacts was the second biggest hoax in lid collecting. The biggest hoax was/is the Champagne Rune spray-job lid. It's interesting how both Kelly Hicks and David "maui" May were key players in the two biggest lid collecting hoaxes.
 
According to Hicks the Champagne Rune is real and according to May XRFacts authenticated them.
 
According to Hicks the Champagne Rune is real and according to May XRFacts authenticated them.

Of course they are real!
Don't forget that someone saw one in the 1960's and more importantly he says they are real and XRF is used by museums.
:facepalm:
 
Military Trader: In many areas of militaria, researching the original owner of an item has been a method of increasing both historical and monetary value of an item. Is this possible with SS helmets? If a person finds a name in a helmet, what resources are available for researching an SS member’s history?

Kelly Hicks: There are many excellent resources available to research named helmets. I used to do all of my own research at the National Archives, until I discovered people who could do it better and more accurately. Among these individuals are Ross Kellbaugh, Dieter Stenger, Mike Constandy, and others. When named helmet can be identified to the wearer, it is definitely a value enhancer, both historically and monetarily.



- Was it only that simple!
A name alone is more then often not enough to link a helmet or other object to a certain soldier and his file.
German names are far from unique, for example just type in a name on the German wargraves website and see how many hits will pop up.
I have seen this silly research: they have an SS helmet and they find a matching name in the SS archive in the National Archives in Washington DC, of course it is a match, it must be, they have paid a professional researcher to photocopy the file.
If I'am not mistaken I have tackled one of these silly research projects by Maui.


Gentlemen, helmet identification is sometimes possible but you need more then a name in the helmet, such as: specific battle damage, a unit or fieldpost number, a solid provenance story, a matching ID booklet,...etc.
Don't get fooled by articles like the one above, paying a fee to someone that researches names in the SS database in the NA isn't a guarantee that the helmet is indeed matched to the file.
 
For memorialization for this thread, Hicks interview excerpts on XRFacts:
 

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For memorialization on this thread, Hicks commentary on the Champagne Rune and dealer refunds:
 

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For memorialization for this thread, Hicks interview excerpts on XRFacts:

This Kelly Hicks "interview" answer is a typical fabrication on the level of a Hillary Clinton explanation of Benghazi or email server, engineered to obfuscate the truth or facts and attempt to separate Hicks from his active role in the XRFacts hoax. It needs a line by line fact check review with commentary.
 
It's simply spin and brand damage control IMHO. Then the posts were deleted and the threads locked......
 

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This Kelly Hicks "interview" answer is a typical fabrication on the level of a Hillary Clinton explanation of Benghazi or email server, engineered to obfuscate the truth or facts and attempt to separate Hicks from his active role in the XRFacts hoax. It needs a line by line fact check review with commentary.

NOTE: Below is my critique of the XRF answer that I posted on the USMF, I have been informed by the editor, that M/T will publish my reproof in the next issue. If you guys have a critique to the C/SS rune debacle, I suggest you write to the editor, he appears to want to have both sides heard


In the October 2016 issue of Military Trader magazine, Third Reich(TR) helmet collector, author and authority Kelly Hicks, answered some tough questions about some recent events occurring within the TR helmet collecting community. While most of the interview delves deeply into TR helmets, specifically SS helmets, there was one question that was asked, which in the recent past, negatively affected those of us in the US helmet collecting community. This was the subject of X-ray Florescence(XRF) and a now defunct helmet authentication service referred to as: XRFacts.

Let me be clear, I have no personal issues with Mr. Hicks and outside of a few chance meetings with him at some of the OVMS Show of Shows in Louisville in which I spoke with him at his table or when he was promoting XRFacts several years ago, I really do not know him well. So, this is not a personal attack in any way and I am sure that he and I have much more in common than what divides us. However, I feel it is vitally necessary to address some very clear mistakes he made in answering one specific question.

All my critiques of his answer are in RED.
__________________________________________________

Military Trader: X-ray florescence(XRF) seemed to be a revolutionary advancement in the hobby, but then fell from favor as fast as it appeared. Can you tell us about the process and do you still use it today in authenticating helmets?


Kelly Hicks: I appreciate the question. Essentially, I no longer use XRF as one of my authentication methods, although it was exciting to work with. I, and many others are fans of this technology, which is widely used by museums and universities throughout the world for forensic analysis of inorganic materials from stone to oil paints to porcelain to metals. (While this is true to a point, it is not true when speaking about helmets. XRF can confirm general time periods of things which are hundreds and thousands of years old, it becomes less accurate when we are talking about mere decades. Especially when used on painted insignia found on U.S. helmets in which the composition of the paint used in the 40’s is still available or easily made today)

While it showed great promise, especially in my main focus; The absolute determination of the material composition of helmet decals, there had been a growth of opposition to the practice among certain members of the community(Since Mr. Hicks “main focus” is TR helmets, when XRFacts decided to cross into an area out of his expertise, specifically the U.S. helmet collecting community, XRFacts made huge mistakes. This was later admitted to by the tech guy for XRFacts, David May.)

There is a long story to my involvement in XRF, but I will skip the drama and be concise. My role had not been on the technical end. Rather, it was as the final inspector of the helmets for a visual hands-on, to ensure the machines verdict was understood and in line with visual expectations of decal characteristics. (To me this is a confusing statement in that the final determination of the authenticity of a helmet, came back to a visual inspection based once again on experience and opinion in order to make sure that the machine wasn’t wrong? This contradicts XRFacts slogan: Provenance Through Science)

We had trained technicians who knew how to interpret the data from the helmet scans, analyzing the data and compare measuring with a growing database(The data base needed for U.S. helmets to make XRF remotely accurate was in the tens of thousands of helmet comparatives not about 100. This is not science at this point, this wishful thinking. The result was legit U.S. helmets were found to be fake and fake helmets were given a COA) ….of original data scans from the best known examples.(These known examples which he is speaking of are those helmets which were already inspected by human eyes and determined to be legit but, what if the human inspection was incorrect? It would then flaw the database, which is exactly what happened with the U.S. helmet side of XRF)

The brief history of XRF is a disappointing one. As we all know, social media can be very political and agenda-driven. Over time, a negative narrative(Blaming politics and personal agendas is a way to blame others. And a negative narrative is not necessarily a wrong thing when it is in conjunction with something that is not working) ….about XRF had been carefully crafted and repeated; (carefully researched responses would be a more proper answer here. “Crafted” implies a twisting of words to discredit XRF, this was not the case as U.S. helmets collectors actually had people who work with XRF themselves and proven the inconsistencies with this technology for use in the U.S. collecting community.) ….to the extent that reasonable collectors questioned its merits as a dependable authentication method. (Questioning its merits is exactly what we should have done. We relied on reasonable collectors who didn’t automatically endorse something just because it was touted as the answer we’ve all been looking to find for vetting out fakes) Many were reluctant to express positiveness(sic) about it publicly because of fear of rejection and criticism on social media.(Lets be honest here, the social media mentioned here was Militaria forums and quite the opposite was true, those who questioned the validity of XRF were shut down on many forums and their posts questioning XRF or debating its merits were removed) ….Moreover, we discovered that one of our team(under an alias)(David May aka; cherrypoint; aka; maui and also the tech guy behind the whole XRFact enterprise) ….argued about it on social media, causing damage and further fanning the flames. Recognizing this, and due to the growing backlash, the expense of maintaining the equipment, and the untimely death of one of our key members and benefactors, we decided to stop the service. (The untimely death was that of Robbie Wilson who ran the Wilson History and Research Center which focused on historical military helmets. I will not say anymore here about their benefactor since Mr. Wilson is unable to answer for himself)
___________________________________________

Let me conclude with this: What occurred on the TR side of Helmet Collecting can be handled by those in that collector community and I will not address the many other things that worked in conjunction with this such as the so-called Champagne runes. However, I felt it was very necessary that what happened on the U.S. side of this debate needed to be addressed after this article was published in which it appears that the blame for its failure is placed on the collectors who questioned this technology and not on those who tried to propagate and profit from it.

Finally, since I have used actual names here, I feel it is only fair to use mine here also. So, thanks for taking time to read this and I hope it clarifies things for those who collect U.S. Helmets
Scott Stevens(Bugme)
 
My opinions:

Well said Bugme. It's such hogwash that "social media" or "Maui fanning the flames" caused XRFacts to fail. It failed because it was misrepresented and was rolled out not as an aid to the hobby as much as it was to make money and control the authentication / COA game.
 

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Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
...absolute determination of the material composition of helmet decals...

Handheld XRF isn't capable of providing an "absolute determination of material composition of helmet decals." It provides an elemental sketch at best and when that decal is on a steel substrate, the results are problematic. Also, it can't see elements lighter than atomic number 11 or 12, so it doesn't see the typical decal celluloid substrate base or many of the elements bonded to the visible elements. So, you can't determine the chemical composition of the decals with handheld XRF. You don't make decals with elements; you make decals with chemical compounds or pure substances. Handheld XRF instrument output or signature is not a valid "fingerprint."

Hicks also obfuscates the timeline and fails to mention all the XRFacts COA failures that outed XRFacts for the sheeple.

Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
...to ensure the machines verdict was understood and in line with visual expectations of decal characteristics.

The handheld XRF never rendered a verdict. It only produced an instrument output or signature. David "maui" May rendered his verdict based on visual comparison of the instrument output with that of presumed legit lids. Visual comparison is a foolish way to compare data or instrument output. So, in this case, the best the XRF could do was indicate that a questionable lid was similar at best to a presumed good lid. From a handheld XRF point of view, a lot of fakes could be similar to legit lids, because handheld XRF doesn't produce absolute repeatable results. Or, in David May's nonprofessional opinion the XRF either looked like a match or didn't. Hicks was needed to render a verdict on David May's visual analysis verdict. How many times did they not agree?
 
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Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
We had trained technicians who knew how to interpret the data from the helmet scans, analyzing the data and compare measuring with a growing database

In Kelly Hicks opinion they had trained technicians, but in reality they were incompetent. We've got a picture posted on this thread of David "maui" May zapping lids in his lap. It appears that he never read the instrument's Operator's Manual or ever had safety training. If I had a tech working for me and I saw a similar picture, that tech would've been fired on the spot.

What XRFacts didn't have was a professional engineer or scientist training and supervising their "technicians" and validating their reports. If they did, XRFacts would have never existed, because the founders would've been informed that their XRF test method was bogus.
 
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Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
Moreover, we discovered that one of our team argued about it on social media, causing damage and further fanning the flames.

David "maui" May appeared on this forum (social media?) and other forums likely to attempt damage control, because this forum was an uncensored beacon of truth broadcasting exposure and explanation of the bogus claims and lies advertised on the now defunct XRFacts' website. The XRFacts crew were wanting to resurrect the lid testing service after the collapse, but this forum was a threat to their plan. David "maui" May never explained his now fully discredited theory, never offered any proof of his claims, or displayed any understanding of his misapplication of handheld XRF. David "maui" May did validate the theme of this thread in that he did show that the XRFacts cofounders were buffoons with no background in science, engineering or chemistry.

Hicks is basically saying that David "maui" May contributed to the failure of the XRF lid testing service by embarrassing the XRFacts team with his performance on the K98k forum which convinced the other XRFacts cofounders that XRFacts was a lost cause. I have to give Kelly Hicks some credit. He's correct. David "maui" May's posts on this forum did make him look foolish and incompetent, hence his mod assigned avatar. maui is the Rudolf Hess of XRFacts!


Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
Recognizing this, and due to the growing backlash, the expense of maintaining the equipment, and the untimely death of one of our key members and benefactors, we decided to stop the service.

This is yet another false statement by Kelly Hicks. The "service" was stopped long before Robert Wilson died, an XRFacts cofounder and money man. The XRF lid testing "service" stopped soon after it began when several bogus XRFacts' COAs appeared on the web that effectively shut down the $250 per lid COA sales. It became abundantly clear that XRFacts didn't offer a foolproof lid authentication service and it wasn't a "scientific determination of authenticity." There was no "provenance through science." It was a clown show starring Kelly Hicks and David May with scientific instrument props, selling high priced COAs, and trying to corner the lid authentication market. The "growing backlash" or lid collector outrage was just a response to their expensive "foolproof" XRFacts COA failures or bogus marketing claims.
 
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June 11, 2010 legal threat from XRF to silence discussion of XRFacts at Gunboards. It didn't work. I've redacted the "lawyer's" name and phone number. Does "science" try to strong arm and threaten its critics to shut them up?:

(name edited)

Set forth below are the two threads that need to be removed from your "Forum". As I mentioned to you in an earlier communication, I represent the company (XRFacts, LLC) and its principal owner. The language contained in these referenced threads is defamatory towards my client and the services offered by it. The apparent author, in my opinion, has recklessly (or perhaps intentionally) provided your Forum members with representations that are not factually accurate or truthful and constitute a tortious interference with the company's business. My client has never been in communication with, or received any communication from, "Hambone" and cannot understand why such bad faith representations would be made.
Please remove these threads immediately and post a retraction on place of these threads. In addition, it would be appreciated if you would post the name and contact information for XRFacts on your Forum in order to allow those persons interested to contact them directly for the purpose of providing references and accurate information regarding the technology and operating procedures of the company.
Thank you,
(name edited)
(phone number edited)
 
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Not factually accurate or truthful

June 11, 2010 legal threat from XRF to silence discussion of XRFacts at Gunboards. It didn't work. I've redacted the "lawyer's" name and phone number. Does "science" try to strong arm and threaten its critics to shut them up?:

(name edited)

Set forth below are the two threads that need to be removed from your "Forum". As I mentioned to you in an earlier communication, I represent the company (XRFacts, LLC) and its principal owner. The language contained in these referenced threads is defamatory towards my client and the services offered by it. The apparent author, in my opinion, has recklessly (or perhaps intentionally) provided your Forum members with representations that are not factually accurate or truthful and constitute a tortious interference with the company's business. My client has never been in communication with, or received any communication from, "Hambone" and cannot understand why such bad faith representations would be made.
Please remove these threads immediately and post a retraction on place of these threads. In addition, it would be appreciated if you would post the name and contact information for XRFacts on your Forum in order to allow those persons interested to contact them directly for the purpose of providing references and accurate information regarding the technology and operating procedures of the company.
Thank you,
(name edited)
(phone number edited)

That was a good description of the now defunct XRFacts website.
 
Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
All advanced collectors, authors, and dealers who know me know that my main focus for decades has been to try to defeat fraudsters and keep the hobby clean.

Apparently, the exception to this main focus is when Hicks profits from a fake such as the mythical Champagne Rune SS lid. In spite of the knowledge that Doug B investigated Champagne Rune SS lids, many, if not all certified with an XRFacts COA, and found them all to be post-war spray job fakes, Hicks refuses to acknowledge this class of SS lid as all post-war fakes. And, he's yet to produce an example of the mythical legit Champagne Rune "decal" SS lid. All of the Champagne Rune SS lids with an XRFacts COA had had a Kelly Hicks hands-on evaluation. If Kelly Hicks was fooled by the XRFacts COA'd Champagne Rune SS lids, all known fakes, how does he know if he's ever seen a legit non-spray job Champagne Rune SS lid? According to Doug B, Kelly Hicks knew some of his lid blessings (non-Champagne Rune SS lids) were wrong, but didn't want to make an acknowledgement, because it would damage his reputation as the infallible God of lids. So, Hicks is against fakery unless he's blessed a fake.

Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
These helmets - these pieces of history - are far too important to us to let some faker ruin it for people who love history and get immense pleasure from owning and handling these incredible and historic items.

Except for spray job Champagne Rune SS lids as noted above. Kelly Hicks has promoted and sold numerous Champagne Rune SS lids on his website with his SS Steel COA or the XRFacts COA. He's also featured the mythical Champagne Rune SS lid in his lid reference books. Hicks can't afford to acknowledge these Champagne Rune SS lids are all fakes. The expense of honoring all his bogus COAs would be cost prohibitive. We know of at least one Champagne Rune SS Lid with Hicks COA that Hicks has refused to honor. So, some fake lids aren't too important to us to let some faker ruin it for collectors. And, we know one of these types of lid is the Champagne Rune SS lid with fake spray job insignia.

Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
Hopefully, someday the technology and potential of XRF and it application to military artifacts can be embraced by the collecting community and possibly fill a role as an important weapon in the fight against forgery.

Hopefully, lid collectors will be smart enough in the future to avoid snake-oil solutions to the fake problem that don't work. Kelly Hicks noticeably avoids mentioning the real reason why XRF lid testing failed: It was an expensive service that didn't work; it appeared to be unreliable. There were too many fake lids sporting bogus XRFacts COAs posted on the internet for the lid collecting community to stomach. XRF lid testing, as offered by XRFacts, was advertised as a foolproof objective scientific determination of authenticity; the absolute last word on authenticity. It was not foolproof. It was not objective. It was not a scientific determination of anything. It could not certify authenticity. Why would anyone, who's not a faker, want the collecting community to embrace a test method that doesn't work or the misapplication of a scientific instrument that yields useless data?
 
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Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
To add one final factor regarding my research and analysis on “champagne runes:” Over the years, it is my strong opinion that too many stars would have had to line up for a faker to have introduced them into the environment, with them being encountered literally thousands of miles apart, in foreign countries, and the US and in all manner of contexts.

Considering that this hoax began in the 70s and was active for decades, it's not inconceivable that they would have dispersed literally thousands of miles apart over twenty to forty years. Considering these fakes were likely trickled out at militaria shows with overseas visitors for decades, the advent of the internet, and the shipping capacity of the USPS, UPS and FedEx, with collectors all over the world, what's so extraordinary about Champagne Rune lids dispersed worldwide? Absolutely nothing. The stars that lined up were M45, ZAM and Doug B. Those stars condemned the Champagne Rune SS lid to an eternity of first class reenactor lid status.

Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
I feel that anyone – any historian / collector / author / military officer / military academic – would draw the same conclusion given this situation.

That's a complete false assertion. Historians, collectors, authors, military officers, and military academics are a diverse group even in the individual categories. I can't see the members of these individual groups coming to a 100% consensus on anything. Given the facts as we know them today, I'd suggest that a majority would conclude that Kelly Hicks was duped and refuses to acknowledge such probably due to the fact that he's leveraged with Champagne Rune lid COAs with lifetime guarantees of authenticity. If you estimate the financial loss of all those Champagne Rune lid COAs knocking on your door, it's safe to assume Hicks' position is based on self-interest and financial survival. It's reality over idealism.

Military Trader.com - 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks said:
I still accept the ones I vetted, just as I accept that there are (painted) fake versions out there, as well, which I have noted and shared with others over the years when I encountered them.

What about the Champagne Rune lids with XRFacts' COA and exposed by Doug B as being spray job fakes? Doug B indicated that the Champagne Rune spray job lids he examined were vetted by Kelly Hicks. Remember, Kelly Hicks vetted all XRFacts' COA lids. Let's see a legit decaled Champagne Rune lid. To date, no one has produced one for examination since Doug B's Champagne Rune investigation and report. What about the black parade lid vetted by Hicks and exposed by Doug B? When Doug B confronted Hicks about this lid, Hicks asked Doug B to not divulge the truth. Doug B exposed this Hicks' fraud on this forum.

This Military Trader.com 10 Questions with Kelly Hicks interview was likely not an interview at all, but a written response to negotiated questions. It's really just an SS Steel infomercial.
 
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We told them it would fail from before they unveiled their creation XRFacts, LLC. It wasn't personal opinion, but scientific fact. There was no way they could go from handheld XRF data output to absolute scientific determination of authenticity, because that instrument data wasn't there. I think they knew that, so their fix was bring Kelly Hicks onboard to give the final blessing. If it was a scientific determination of authenticity, why did they need a Kelly Hicks? In David May's unstated theory of XRF lid testing, XRFacts should've put Hicks' COA mill out of business.
 
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