Light Strikes on Gewehr 88

*Update as of 03/23/2024*

I believe I’ve narrowed down the issue to the nut on the back of the bolt that that firing pin screws into. It does not seem to have been threaded properly…

There is not enough thread on it to finish a final rotation of that nut. When I forced it, which involved hitting it with a hammer, I could get that last rotation but the cocking piece would get caught causing the slow movement and light strikes.

I ordered a “new” nut, but until then I simply put the nut on with one less rotation. The firing pin seems to move forward a lot snappier now.

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Hi everybody! I'm new to this forum and this is my first post, I believe I am posting it in the right section but apologize in advance if it is not. I am a big history buff and am excited to have discovered this forum!

Although technically not a Mauser rifle, I have a question pertaining to a Gewehr 88/05 that I picked up last winter.

Cosmetically it is in great shape. After inspecting it and determining it seemed to be in good enough shape to be fired, I brought it to the range. I fired maybe 40 rounds or so through it... first of all I have to say it was a really fun old rifle to shoot! There were substantial light primer strikes, however. I want to say about 1 out of 5 were light strikes. I figured the mainspring is probably the original that was manufactured in 1890. So, I went to Myers Arms' website and purchased a new one. I have no idea when the last time the bolt was disassembled, but it was absolute hell to get it apart. The nut on the back was extremely tight - I actually needed a heavy duty screw driver to help turn the thing (by putting the flathead between the metal tab on the side and the bolt body). After getting it disassembled, I found there was a lot of grease on the parts... I admit I probably should have done a better job of cleaning it up while it was disassembled. I installed the new mainspring and got it reassembled.

Then I took it to the range a second time. To my surprise, nearly all the attempts to fire were now light strikes! I want to say now 9/10 times I attempt to fire it results in light strikes. The firing pin is making really good indentations on the primers, but it actually seems to be moving forward very slowly compared to another Gewehr 88 rifle. I would also like to note that I don't believe the ammo is an issue - as my buddies and I used the same two lots of 8mm ammo in another Gewehr 88, and it worked 100% reliably in the other one.

I admit that while I have been shooting guns since I was a kid, I am not super familiar with some of the more technical aspects. Any advice on how I should proceed would be greatly appreciated! I would love to get this old antique working reliably again!

Thank you all in advance!

What ammo ?

A couple things to take a look at.

First question would be does the rifle have good headspace, people take it way out of context, but if you do have excessive headspace the round can move forward and may contribute to the problem.

Second question would be, did you check firing pin protrusion after assembly? Every rotation of the nut is .037", and missing it by even one turn can essentially eliminate your firing pin protrusion. This is a common issue on just about any threaded firing pin.

I would recommend disassembling, thorough cleaning, and verify correct assembly.

ernie8 said:

What ammo ?

Click to expand...

I used ammo from two different lots of Turkish surplus that, at least in my experience, didn't seem to have the overpressure issues of the usual Turkish surplus 8mm (no strange cratering/ripples in the primers and the bolts didn't stick as much). One lot was from 1951 and the other was from 1947. I chose that ammo because it is a copy of the older S cartridge.

Fal Grunt said:

A couple things to take a look at.

First question would be does the rifle have good headspace, people take it way out of context, but if you do have excessive headspace the round can move forward and may contribute to the problem.

Second question would be, did you check firing pin protrusion after assembly? Every rotation of the nut is .037", and missing it by even one turn can essentially eliminate your firing pin protrusion. This is a common issue on just about any threaded firing pin.

I would recommend disassembling, thorough cleaning, and verify correct assembly.

Click to expand...

I appreciate the suggestions!

As far as headspace goes, I don't have any 8x57 go/no-go gauges, although maybe there is some way I could rig up a measurement without the gauge.

As for your second question, that really has me thinking. That last rotation of the nut was brutally hard... Maybe I did an extra rotation when I put the nut back on! I will disassemble it again, thoroughly clean it this time, and use one less rotation when I reassemble it. One thing I would say is, comparing it to another rifle, the firing pin seems to move much more sluggishly forward when the trigger is pulled, it doesn't snap forward as fast as the other one.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

AJ

Did it get back together correct, did you grease the insides? see this video


Now what replacement spring did you used? New extra power Wolf spring or a used spring?
I think when I replaced the springs on my dog Turk Gew 88 I used GEW 98 Wolf extra power springs. That was 20 years ago. If I remember correct the bolt spring from a Gewehr 98 will fit the bolt nicely. I never fire full strength 8mm mauser surplus. Best would be to down load and use a soft primer. Most of the Turk 8mm is too hot and others have hard berdan primers. Better is low power 8mm Remington ammo.

Clean the bolt, grease the parts for assembly, and use a new replacement extra strong spring so you hear a strong click on a dry fire. Also check firing pin protrusion. Check to be sure that new spring is not too large and is free in the tube body and free around the firing pin-it should slip easily over the firing pin. Yep, checked my old notes and a Mauser 98 striker springs were a direct substitute on an old Turk. I ordered a 24 lb. one from Wolff Gunsprings. Firing pin is beyond .055 most are around pin protrusion of .065-.075". Adjust by screwing in or out striker.

ajczarkowski said:

I appreciate the suggestions!

As far as headspace goes, I don't have any 8x57 go/no-go gauges, although maybe there is some way I could rig up a measurement without the gauge.

As for your second question, that really has me thinking. That last rotation of the nut was brutally hard... Maybe I did an extra rotation when I put the nut back on! I will disassemble it again, thoroughly clean it this time, and use one less rotation when I reassemble it. One thing I would say is, comparing it to another rifle, the firing pin seems to move much more sluggishly forward when the trigger is pulled, it doesn't snap forward as fast as the other one.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

AJ

Click to expand...

Diametrical pitch on MANY original rifles, from the 71 to the 91, are an issue. Fitment and interchangeability is a common problem. An extra rotation of the nut would provide too much firing pin protrusion, which would likely pierce the primer, but would certainly provide ample firing pin protrusion. Do you have any way to measure firing pin protrusion? The firing pin should be flush, or nearly flush with the rear of the firing pin nut.

The comment that the travel is sluggish is certainly a concern, it should be "snappy" as you say. The best way to diagnose a problem like this is to strip it down to bare components and systematically eliminate any issues.

In regards to the ammunition, I have no experience with the "newer" Turkish, everything I have shot over the years was pre 1945. There were a few duds, but 9/10 is unlikely. I remember quite a few would need a second hit to fire, and that was in a good condition Mauser 98. There are some surplus ammo with very hard primers, but again 9/10 is unlikely. Did you try shooting your misfires in your friends 88? You might try a box of PPU to see what your rifle does with those.

72usmc said:

Did it get back together correct, did you grease the insides? see this video

Now what replacement spring did you used? New extra power Wolf spring or a used spring?
I think when I replaced the springs on my dog Turk Gew 88 I used GEW 98 Wolf extra power springs. That was 20 years ago. If I remember correct the bolt spring from a Gewehr 98 will fit the bolt nicely. I never fire full strength 8mm mauser surplus. Best would be to down load and use a soft primer. Most of the Turk 8mm is too hot and others have hard berdan primers. Better is low power 8mm Remington ammo.

Clean the bolt, grease the parts for assembly, and use a new replacement extra strong spring so you hear a strong click on a dry fire. Also check firing pin protrusion. Check to be sure that new spring is not too large and is free in the tube body and free around the firing pin-it should slip easily over the firing pin. Yep, checked my old notes and a Mauser 98 striker springs were a direct substitute on an old Turk. I ordered a 24 lb. one from Wolff Gunsprings. Firing pin is beyond .055 most are around pin protrusion of .065-.075". Adjust by screwing in or out striker.

Click to expand...

That is actually the exact video I watched!

I did not grease the insides, I actually thought it probably needed some grease taken out. If I remember correctly, there was a decent amount in there. The replacement spring I got was from Myers Arms (I actually got a couple extra ones too):


Interestingly enough, it was a little shorter than the original that I took out. That being said, going off of what you typed, I have a funny feeling it needs to be cleaned... any suggestions as far as what I should use, if anything, on some of the parts when reassembling it? Thanks in advance.

As far as firing pin protrusion goes, I just checked and the back of the firing pin assembly is flush with the nut. I'll have to post a pic.

The Turkish surplus definitely seems to shoot hot. I was lucky enough to find some that seemed a bit less so (I did a little research and a lot of people seem to claim the WWII years are the most overpressured of the Turkish surplus... interesting but I certainly can't confirm that!)

Fal Grunt said:

Diametrical pitch on MANY original rifles, from the 71 to the 91, are an issue. Fitment and interchangeability is a common problem. An extra rotation of the nut would provide too much firing pin protrusion, which would likely pierce the primer, but would certainly provide ample firing pin protrusion. Do you have any way to measure firing pin protrusion? The firing pin should be flush, or nearly flush with the rear of the firing pin nut.

The comment that the travel is sluggish is certainly a concern, it should be "snappy" as you say. The best way to diagnose a problem like this is to strip it down to bare components and systematically eliminate any issues.

In regards to the ammunition, I have no experience with the "newer" Turkish, everything I have shot over the years was pre 1945. There were a few duds, but 9/10 is unlikely. I remember quite a few would need a second hit to fire, and that was in a good condition Mauser 98. There are some surplus ammo with very hard primers, but again 9/10 is unlikely. Did you try shooting your misfires in your friends 88? You might try a box of PPU to see what your rifle does with those.

Click to expand...

I can confirm the firing pin is flush with the rear of the firing pin nut. When we were testing it out, it looked like there were actually pretty good indentations on the primers. I think it just wasn't hitting fast enough.

As far as the Turkish rounds that were misfires, we picked them up and fired them in the other Gewehr 88 no problem. The other Gewehr 88 had zero misfires using the same ammo. And actually you just reminded me, we did try a few rounds of new PPU ammo in the rifle the second time I brought it to the range (I think only two or three). Same issue, it looked like solid hits on the primers, but were still misfires. Again, the other Gewehr 88 fired the PPU ammo no problem.

I really appreciate the input guys! I will have to get the bolt disassembled again in the coming days.

AJ

1) Clean the bolt really well. Full disassembly and de-greasing. Let the parts soak in some solvent over night to really get it off. If you want to be 100% sure brake cleaner will do the trick, although that stuff is cancer in a can so if you use it make sure to bust out the nitrile gloves, do it outside, and then wash the parts well afterwards. I don't put any grease on the inside of my bolts, just oil. Obviously re-oil everything if you strip it down that well, my usual pattern is I degrease then oil with penetrating oil to make sure it gets in all the nooks and crannies, followed by a few drops of regular oil.

2) as others have already said, measure pin protrusion. If you don't have an OK set of calipers, buy some. You can get a good enough for low usage hobbiest stuff cheap set of digital calipers off amazon for less than $10.

3) as has already been said, check headspace. You can get a field gauge for about ~$40, and they're useful to have if you're into old 8mm rifles.

4) try some different ammo. Military primers can be a bit on the hard side and they don't age like fine wine. A box of commercial is a worthy investment if only for troubleshooting purposes. Prvi makes good and inexpensive 8mm.

5) failing all that, replace the spring.

Ok guys, so I know it's been three months since I made this post here, but I finally got around to stripping the bolt down and cleaning it up. I got rid of all that greasy crap that was on the inside of the bolt and installed a new Wolff 98 Mauser mainspring.

I mentioned the first time taking it apart was absolute hell and involved a flathead screwdriver being used as a lever while the bolt was in a vice... this time things went a lot smoother for both the disassembly and reassembly, minus the final turn of the bolt head.

Now for something really interesting, after getting the thing all cleaned, putting the new Wolff 22 pound mainspring installed and reassembling the bolt, I put it back in my rifle. I pulled the trigger and it barely moved forward. It is probably about the same as it was with the Myers Arms mainspring. So unfortunately, I don't actually think the mainspring was/is the problem.

I've since bought another Gewehr 88. This one, while cosmetically in much rougher shape, runs absolutely flawlessly and has no misfires. It has the smoothest action out of any bolt action I've ever used... It's quickly become tied with my lever action .22 for my two favorite rifles. It's rifling is a bit worn, but it shoots quite accurately with the 154 grain bullets it was used with back in the day (I used the same two lots of Turkish surplus with it, by the way. And with this rifle that ammo worked flawlessly).

Just for the hell of it, I swapped the bolts on the two rifles. Interestingly enough, with the bolts swapped, both rifles seem to function ok... They are not super smooth actions, but they aren't anywhere near as bad as when the troublesome bolt is in my first Gewehr 88. But as mentioned previously, my second Gewehr 88 with its bolt that came with it is the smoothest action I've ever used, I'd hate to sacrifice that... but with the bolts switched at least I have two functioning Gew 88's.

I really cannot understand why that combination of rifle and bolt just cannot function correctly... For what it's worth, both rifles are of the bunch that was German war aid sent to Turkey. So they both have Czech replacement bolts, identifiable by the circled "z" (IIRC, the Brits threw the bolts from the Turk's rifles into the sea following their defeat in WWI, so post WWI they bought new bolts from the Czechs). It moves so slowly forward when I pull the trigger... as if it's caught on something... the other bolt works fine, even if the cock-on-open is a little tough.

So I think for now, I'll just leave the bolts swapped... Obviously as Czech replacements, they aren't original parts anyways. Both are a little tough on the cock-on-open but at least they work. With how snappy they go forward I'd be shocked if I had any issues. I think going forward I may look into trying to acquire another bolt.

AJ

Check headspace if you’re swapping bolts like that.

As for why they wouldn’t work in different combos, you’re not talking about interchangeable parts. There was a fair bit of hand fitting involved and tolerances are going to stack in unfortunate ways.

Cyrano4747 said:

Check headspace if you’re swapping bolts like that.

As for why they wouldn’t work in different combos, you’re not talking about interchangeable parts. There was a fair bit of hand fitting involved and tolerances are going to stack in unfortunate ways.

Click to expand...

You're probably right about the headspace... I'll have to maybe look into getting a gauge... I've been reluctant to do so because these are the only two 8x57 rifles I own.

I understand there was a lot of hand fitting back then. But considering that it's the bolt that I bought with that rifle, and presumably the one the Turks were using with it, I don't understand why it's so troublesome.

AJ

ajczarkowski said:

You're probably right about the headspace... I'll have to maybe look into getting a gauge... I've been reluctant to do so because these are the only two 8x57 rifles I own.

I understand there was a lot of hand fitting back then. But considering that it's the bolt that I bought with that rifle, and presumably the one the Turks were using with it, I don't understand why it's so troublesome.

AJ

Click to expand...

Long story short, you don't know what the history of the rifle was before it got to you. For all you know the gun was serviced and put into grease for storage, had the bolt swapped, and wasn't touched for half a century or more until you got your hands on it. A headspace gauge is a cheap tool to help diagnose issues.

That said, headspace is a more complex topic than just bad/good. But, if you're already chasing light strike problems, it's 100% something you should look into.

Other than headspace and firing pin protrusion, which others have mentioned, one other thing I've found and I saw someone else mentioned. The old grease. The bolt was probably packed full of grease or cosmo a LONG time ago and that stuff was thicker than glue. It was also compressed into the bottom of the bolt bore. It took a lot of effort to get it all cleaned out and that solved the problem.

FWIW, I chased this problem on a Mauser and a Mosin and both times my first thought was to replace the spring.

You have cases that did fire in the problem rifle . Check those for size against unfired cases . That will tell you if there is a real bad headspace problem or not . It still sounds like a bolt problem . Try and work the firing pin in the empty bolt body by hand , and keep adding parts to find out if one is bad , bent . Also remember these rifles have been it the US for a while and god knows what someone has done to it . Since you can not see the barrel , take of the barrel shroud to see if the barrel has been backed out . Friends and I have and fire over 200 Gew-88's and most have mis-matched bolts and we have swapped bolts back and forth , never had a problem . Check for a Chinese made bolthead , I did get a rifle once where someone put one on to complete the bolt , it was bad .

I want to thank you guys for all the help on this.

A quick update this morning: When I put the problematic bolt in the "new to me" rifle, it seems to function a little bit better. It is still slower going forward, however, than the other bolt in either rifle.

Here's two details I've noticed: with the good bolt, I can pull the end piece back to cock it (in either rifle). With the problematic bolt, I cannot. It simply won't move. Also, on the rifle that the bolt came with, I just noticed with a lot of the surface area in the receiver where the bolt rides, the metal is very rough... On the other rifle, it is extremely smooth, almost like the previous owner polished it.

This makes me think, perhaps it needs some kind of lubrication? I was entirely focused on getting the grease off, that as @heavy_mech correctly mentioned, was thicker than glue.

Ok guys! I narrowed down the problem to the endpiece!

To make a very long story short, after spending hours completely disassembling and painstakingly cleaning every part of the bolt, I realized while screwing the endpiece on, it ran out of thread before it made it’s (what I thought was last) full rotation…

In the past I forced the endpiece to a full rotation. This resulted in the the bolt extremely sluggishly making it’s way forward (and sometimes not moving forward at all). Now I know that the last rotation is very difficult, but this was on another level. In order to force that last quarter of a rotation, I would need to put the bolt in a vice and hit it with a hammer.

So I moved it back a little so that the little square deflector piece is right under and parallel to the safety, as it’s supposed to be. It seems to be going forward fine now…

The only thing I am concerned about is that there is a little bit of thread left on the endpiece… However, not enough to complete a full roation. It is not quite flush, but about a three-quarters rotation from it.





As you can see, all the thread is taken up. If I force it with a hammer, as I have already tried, the bolt does not snap forward when I pull the trigger






This is the way I have the bolt now. As you can see, there is a tiny bit of thread left… However, this is the last “full” rotation I can do with the endpiece. It snaps forward like the other Gewehr 88 now.

Do you guys think there would be an issue with piercing primers by having that slight difference?



I know the helmets are from the wrong World War, lol… Don’t have any WWI helmets at the moment.

AJ

Do you reload your own ammo by any chance?

Because the easiest way to figure out would be to load a primer only cartridge and snap it in your garage (or someplace else that a mild bang won't be noticed or worried about) and then inspect it.

That said, in my experience you're probably OK. But I'd still want to give it a test before I used it with live ammo.

Cyrano4747 said:

Do you reload your own ammo by any chance?

Because the easiest way to figure out would be to load a primer only cartridge and snap it in your garage (or someplace else that a mild bang won't be noticed or worried about) and then inspect it.

That said, in my experience you're probably OK. But I'd still want to give it a test before I used it with live ammo.

Click to expand...

I think that’s a great idea!

So I don’t reload. However, I do have a few rounds of Turkish surplus 8x57 that had loose bullets or cracks around the ends of the case… Would it be OK to pull those bullets, dump the powder, and use that as a primer only cartridge?

AJ

ajczarkowski said:

I think that’s a great idea!

So I don’t reload. However, I do have a few rounds of Turkish surplus 8x57 that had loose bullets or cracks around the ends of the case… Would it be OK to pull those bullets, dump the powder, and use that as a primer only cartridge?

AJ

Click to expand...

Yeah that will work. Clean the bolt and barrel afterwards, though, the salts that promote rust in "corrosive" ammo are in the primer.

Wear earpro, it's not going to be loud enough that it registers as a gunshot to the neighbors but it will absolutely be loud enough to damage your hearing indoors. You'll get a little fart of sparks out the barrel of the gun and some gas and particulates that could damage anything nearby. I'd be mildly concerned doing it next to the dining room drapes, not concerned at all in the garage. That said, people have killed themselves playing with blank firing only guns. It's not dangerous, just don't be an idiot. Don't rest the muzzle on your foot and pull the trigger or use your oily rag collection to catch the sparks.

Have you inspected the tip of the firing pin, many have been altered and some repaired poorly.