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I have two more K98's I am looking for opinions on

gfguns

Member
I was asked to help set values for two more k-98's that my partner has an interested buyer for. One is a CE 43 s/n 109t and the other is a bcd 42 s/n 3022 e. I can't say they will be available for members here to buy or if I will be listing them on Gunbroker for sale at this time. Am I still welcome to post away?
Thanks
Greg
 
I agree, - the rules or opposition to discussing on-line auctions (currently running) have more to do with "outing" a auction and exposing other collectors to unnecessary competition.

Many experienced collectors get reamed by novice collectors - often doing it over and over again- looking for a short cut to actually doing their own research. This really gets annoying after awhile.

Any dealer, seller, or collector who will detail a rifle before they list it and offer good data for research in the process I have a high tolerance for.

It’s the only reason I go to the forums really, - especially lately.

By the way, - both makers (assemblers) are really interesting in this time frame, lots of sub-contracting. Try and do the barrel coding.
 
Ok Thanks I will get the camera out this weekend and get some detailed photos. Hey SimsonSuhl how do I do the barrel coding? Greg
 
Most mid-war barrels will have a date, code that identifies the provider of the raw forging (steel mill), the lot number and the finisher will be identified either by waffenamt (if in-house) or if a sub-contractor by an ordnance code.
Early on this is often hidden under the stock, but by 1940 or so they increasingly are seen above the wood line. S&S (Sauer) and Gustloff Weimar are notorious for having at least a partial above the wood line.

Both used key sub-contractors extensively, S&S often used other nearby firms (BSW, CGH etc..); Gustloff Weimar used just about every barrel finisher that outsourced.

Most often Gustloff used Ruhrstahl, as they were part of the Saxony Group organized for the purpose of providing Gustloff with parts to assemble (Gustloff was designed to be an assembler from the beginning, using smaller specialized firms that made components).

Perhaps the most intriguing firm we follow is Gustloff Weimar, as they offer the most variation. You can find elusive guo barrels (AI in the Netherlands), FN made barrels, or even the occasional bcd made barrels later in the war (43-44).

Anyway, knowing the BC will not add value to your rifle usually, however it can add to our understanding of how the rifles were made, the interactions between firms, and it often encourages collectors to contribute to your thread.

I know I find it much less tedious to post if I get a BC, or some “data-poaching” for my research.
 
I might also add that the barrel is the "number two" best way to tell if the rifle has been through a rework or repair- number one is stock acceptance pattern, but second most helpful area to examine is the barrel.

Often times it is the quickest, easiest location to examine for clues to your rifles "originality", especially when a stock is well worn or abused.
 
I might also add that the barrel is the "number two" best way to tell if the rifle has been through a rework or repair- number one is stock acceptance pattern, but second most helpful area to examine is the barrel.

Often times it is the quickest, easiest location to examine for clues to your rifles "originality", especially when a stock is well worn or abused.

OK thanks that is a lot to understand. Will good close up pictures of all barrel markings will be sufficiant information.
 
I took about 70 pictures of the bcd 42 last night but did not get them posted because the site was down. I will get them posted today. I am pretty sure i got all of the bbl markings. Also I noticed on the CE 43 the Swastikas are not recognizable like the die was broken or someone purposely removed them. Is this common?

Thanks
Greg
 
147/ce

j.p.s. Used a small test proof stamp. Sometimes it's hard to make out. Sometimes it's defaced. I've seen some where they took a tiny prick punch and wacked the swazstica. It's hard to say..Most bcd42's have a dual coded barrel. Bys & aws?? I need to look at mine. I'm away from it right now..
 
A Gustloff Werke Weimar, bcd/42, could have almost any barrel as that is the most varied year. They used just about every firm that supplied barrels.. primarily Ruhrstahl (bys/avk), as they were the official supplier to the Saxony Group which was set up for the purpose of supplying Gustloff. But they used FN extensively, -as well as the Dutch arsenal AI and just about any other is possible.

1941-42 Gustloff is the most interesting firm for the barrel code study; even after 1942 they do not disappoint and come up with oddball stuff, even the occasional in-house barrel.

They have to be the most screwed up company ever to make a product. - as they say, you get what you pay for and as they were so tied to slave labor- far more than Steyr, who was up to their elbows in blood- its a good thing they didn't "actually" make very many of the component parts. Not sure I would really want to shoot a 98k with a "bcd" barrel.

As for Sauer, probably the last real firm that was family owned (probably leveraged by banks, as most machine tool/firearm related firms were..), - last to join the nazi party- and probably the least guilty firm all things considered. They did use the minimalistic f/p, as did Brno (dot), and its probably just wishful thinking that it was because these two firms were just a "little" less nazi than the others.

Reading the post war interviews with the Czech (about their armaments industry) they sure try to distance themselves from "cooperating/collaborating"! Though I think it’s more like reading the "Buchenwalde Report" where the events described are EXTREMELY exaggerated as to resistance.
 
Here is the bcd 42

Please let me know if more pictures are needed. Greg
 

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bcd 42 #2
 

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bcd 42 #3
 

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bcd 42 #4 & final
 

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100% legit...man that thing is nice. Pretty tough one to find....lower band should be numbered though. Like you said sight is mismatched too. Someone may have already mentioned, but the general consensus is that 42 is one of the tougher years to find....those parts will impact value but i dont think as much as it normally would, this is a fairly sought after code. Notice all the lower case letters for subcontracted parts, from bayonet lug right down to the buttplate. As simson may have mentioned, Gustloff was primarily an assembler. Nice piece! :thumbsup:
 
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Agree, it is legit and very nice. :thumbsup: I get all excited when I see the foreign contract parts on these, like that FN barrel. I don't know why.

It is a pity about the rear sight and the unnumbered rear band, but both could have easily been field replaced during the war. I can't see any reason why anyone would feel the need to remove a rear sight post war.

Bring on the Sauer!
 
I agree w/BigD & Ryan, nice rifle, very possibly period done (but m/m is m/m and most collectors do not give too much latitude to theories when buying- some are more open to theories when selling!)

The barrel is as BigD says, FN finished, made with an unidentified blank, - very probably an "occupied" (Dutch or Belgian) steel firms blank, as many are unknown. I have a decent file on logo's for the larger steel mills but most are German.

The Dutch especially hoarded raw materials before the occupation and lots of material was on hand. Several books go into the dilemma the Dutch faced -and Germans- who couldn't decide whether to use the materials in the occupied territories employing the Dutch firms, or to send it to Germany.
Largely a compromise was reached for the first year or two, mostly to ease the Dutch unemployment and make the Dutch more open to German occupation.. this changed when the war went south, and the nazis went with their favored approach (what is most natural for all socialists) to occupation "management"- brutality, thievery, and mismanagement, with a little slave labor thrown in to make sure everyone knew who nazis really are.

Anyway, nice rifle and I agree, the small m/m parts should not distract to terribly on the end price for most collectors.
 

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