byf42 'S319' Sheet Metal Trials Gun

Here are a lot of comparison photos of the prototype sheet metal parts (TG, FP and follower) on SN S319. While not perfect, its the first one of these to surface. Mike has
some recollection of seeing another 'S' prefix but so far no luck in digging any data on that one. The best we can come up with is that a run of these rifles with the new sheet metal
components were assembled later in 1942 (stock is dated 33rd week of 1942).

I have some sheet engineering drawings that I will post up later. Mauser orgininally designed these components in 1942 with the initial production and use of sheet metal components showing up by early summer of 1943 (May - June, d to e blocks).

The comparison sheet metal parts are standard production parts from a 'd' block byf44.

The one detail photo of the front well of theTG shows the WR Mauser inspection stamp. Also note that the intial design of the sheet metal TG attempted to copy the build up on the front face of the guard ring (as found on milled guards). It was eliminated on the production model.

Also a big thanks to Eric for finding this on GB in the first place.

Added note: The metal finish on all the stamped parts is unusual in that it appears to have a granular appearance, almost 'bead blasted'. Another test run at finishing the sheet metal I suppose. A close examination of the photos will bear this out.

Perfect ?

This is why these forums are so great. This gun like most treasures doesn't have to be perfect to be valuable. Rare trumps perfection in this case.

I can say with certainty that I have never seen one, nor heard of another!

Very cool rifle, and all this is incredibly interesting for a great many reasons. Perhaps most of all the timing that this was being done in Germany, was nearly at the same time being done by Remington Arms, for the M1903A3.
In the Mar/Apr 1943 Army Ordnance, they detail the effort Remington Arms did on a similar project to simplify, and conserve raw materials on the Model1903. In the article they show the differences with the trigger guard- quite striking.

Engineering dwgs. for sheet metal comps.

The second dwg. is for the design for the rear band with the design date of Oct.6, 1942 in the notes.
Also is a date of 16 March 1943 under the part designation (number). The first dwg. is for the production
version of the trigger housing, dated Nov. 1942 with a revision in March of 1943.

After looking at these drawings, it is likely that Mauser began bulk manufacturing and fabrication of
the sheet metal components in March of 1943. This correlates nicely with the 'd' and 'e' blocks of
1943 being the intial production using sheet metal components.

Dwgs. courtesy of Jon Speed.

k98..

Great photos Bruce !! I'm so glad you ended up with this rifle. Cause ,I know this is what would happen to it. It would be shared. You did a great job fixing the trigger guard.
You almost cant tell it was bent. This is an important rifle. So I assume it's a m.m. bolt only?. Makes sense to put out examples for field use. With any luck J.S. will turn out the blue prints on these pre-adoption stamped parts. Nice missing link..

Eng. dwgs

So far no luck on matching dwgs. up with these parts. Likely very early development.
Also with the drawing revisions, these early features could have been wiped out.

I believe the best chance of nailing the whole program down would be to find some internal correspondence relating to the trial run.

Did you put the triggerguard over a mandrel form to get it back like that Bruce? VERY nice.

Incredible. Saving all the pictures!

Bruce
The Rifle cleaned Up Very Nicely , and a great addition to the Collection. As Far as Surviving Example of this Rifle I would Classify it in Comparison to my BSW Objective Mount at least in Surviving Examples . This is the only one I have ever seen of this Type and as Far as Surviving Original Objective Mount Snipers I only know of Two that I would say without a doubt Original . As far as Total Numbers Produced not a Comparison to Your BYF 42 S319 Rifle . Best Regards

A great rifle that ended up on the right collection. Even without drawings, you can tell these parts are prototypes and original!

Its stuff like this that will keep the hobby fresh and active..





..

Congrats Bruce. What a find!

Team find

Thanks Don. Its a team effort with guys helping each other. I had several guys hold off
as they knew I specialize in MO stuff. I appreciate those gestures and also from all the
help in the background work on this puppy.

Important find. Thanks for posting the pictures.

It would be neat, if the documents related for the 135 marked "dot" stamped welded front H band were uncovered. These stamped H bands begin showing up in 1943 dot k98's.


Researching with Michael Heidler's German Manufacturing Codes to 1945 book and using Google maps. I wanted to get a feel for manufacturing locations. It appears that 135 - Sachsische GuBstahlwerke Dohlen AG was approximately 583 km (5 hours present travel time) to Mauser Oberndorf and 362 km (3 hour 45 mins present travel time) to dot. I wish I could find the average rail and road travel time during the WWII time period.

These are rough estimates and exact locations are not used. However, the use of 135 marked parts at other manufacturers and assemblers makes sense.

Does anyone know, If parts went directly to the plants or were regularly transferred/stored in route.

Heidler's book is packed with code and location information. My son got me a signed copy last Christmas, while he was stationed in Germany.

The following are on the map and from the book with page references.

A - Werk Oberndorf Neckar
B - Freital, Germany
C - Werk Brunn (Brno) cz

pg 114 (location cross ref pg 382)
byf - Mauser-Werke AG, Werke Oberndorf/Neckar, Baden-Wurttemberg

pg 74 (location cross ref pg 420)
135 - Sachsische GuBstahlwerke Dohlen AG, Stahlwerke Freital, Saxony

pg 134 (location cross ref pg 459)
dot - Waffenwerke Brunn AG, Werke Brunn (Brno), Czech Republic


Google Maps link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...12.601318&spn=5.845017,10.788574&z=7&dirflg=d



Michael Heidler book info and links:
Author Michael Heidler <GGBuch@web.de>
German Manufacturing Codes to 1945 - Please contact him directly if you're interested in his book (approximately $60).

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?115614-New-book-on-productions-code-etc..

http://www.germanmanuals.com/militaria.html

Great rifle and info! Pic stickied.

rcmauser, you have an error in your understanding of codes vs. waffenamts.

The 135 you see with the wings above it is the waffenamt acceptance stamp for Mauser Oberndorf. Each area was assigned a waffenamt team with a number which inspected parts manufactured in that area, for Mauser the code was S/42, then 42, then byf later (and svw at the end) and the Waffenamt was E/135.

So, the bands you see with E/135 on them are actually made by Mauser Oberndorf.

Thank you....I do see the error of my ways... That makes sense... and the thread on LUBECA (LU) is obvious...

I should have checked the waffenamt book...

Still....would like see design diagrams on the stamped and welded front H band. That would be neat.

Yeah, she sure is a beauty, and an important and rare piece of the puzzle I do believe. And had at a bargain price too, really.

I would guess the strange s/n might have scared people off....

Sure wish I would have found it, but at least it will be well documented, and loved...

Glass negative images

Here are copies of the original glass negative assembly photos from Mauser. Jon dug these out of the archive. Pretty neat.
The one of the trigger guard shows all of the basic flats or building blocks for the assembly.

Also in hits photos from Lockhoven, a 'd' block byf43 is equipped with the early style floorplate, so evidently some of the
prototype sheet metal was released on the first 1943 assembled rifles with sheet metal components.

Also if you look close at the image of the triggerguard assy., you can see the build up on the front part of the guard ring, as opposed to
the production version that had this feature deleted.

Such a remarkable find!

To think such as this would not have come out earlier? One can only imagine what else is hiding in Jon Speeds archive!

SimsonSuhl said:

Such a remarkable find!

To think such as this would not have come out earlier? One can only imagine what else is hiding in Jon Speeds archive!

Click to expand...

I think the issue is not knowing exactly what you are looking at- if you have an idea, you can dig through and find it!

I took the photos and inverted them from a negative to an image.