Erfurt 1903, Gew98

I have a please to researchers of numbers, is possible to estimate the Erfurt Gew98 production 1899-1918? Any rough numbers would be great, thanks. As i need some info to a exhibition to 100 year of WW1 in local museum , there would be posted a Gew98 of 1903 Erfurt production, with missed parts on bolt and 9897g serialed. Not extra condition. thanks for help, Andy from Slovakia

Nice rifle and it falls right in with all the other Erfurt/03 known, which all are either in the "first" block (no suffix range) or in the "f" and "g" blocks, yours is the highest known but a little more than a dozen rifles have been recorded.

The question of how many were made is impossible to say, - Storz states none were made prior to 1916, which is not the case at all and shows the weakness of his book with observations (had he asked German collectors for help, or looked at John Walter's books, most could have told him Erfurt made the Gewehr98 1899-1908 and 1915-1917, though in small numbers most of those years). What can be said with certainty about how many were made in 1903 by Erfurt is that they made approximately 20,000 rifles, 2400 f block through the 9900 g block, plus some no suffix rifles, which are difficult to tie down, probably these were rifles made later from leftover receivers.

What can be said about Erfurt (and all the arsenals), on their early Gewehr98 production, is they serialed rifles without rolling over each year, - 1899 all first block; 1900 all first block and a block; 1901 a-b-c block; 1902 d-e block; 1903 f-g block; 1904 they continue into the "h" block and then start rolling over every year. All years have some no-suffix rifles, but these flyers are probably leftover receivers assembled later, I have been trying to establish acceptance patterns for each year to prove this but I have not been able to collect enough RR acceptance patterns to do so yet.

BTW, the articles I wrote on Erfurt have wrong figures for production, when writing them I violated Mark Wieringa's rules on estimating rifle production. Which is that to avoid errors in estimating production you need multiple reports (observations) in the high range and some reports in the prior blocks, - in other words gaps have to be explained, you can't have 8 rifles in the first block and 12 rifles in the "f" and "g" blocks and nothing in-between and estimate 80,000 rifles, you need to look at the acceptance of the rifles, the prior years production etc... this I did not do properly when i wrote the article.

Do you have a picture of the right side of the receiver? I am interested in the acceptance pattern on the right side?

hello many thanks for the answer, unfortunally i dont have the picture of acceptance, but could say that the button disc was numbered for 118 IR , 11 Company, when i get there i will probably made some additional pictures, as i got from the kurator only few pictures to made some comments. On Wikipedia or Inet was mentioned the Erfurt made about 1,5 milion of Karbines 98 prior to 1918, is probably not real with the numbers You mentioned here, but it fully corespond what sayes Goerz about 54 rifles per day in 1902, which would bring about 15000-20000 rifles in a year, but the employments increased in WW1 so the numbers would be probably higher as 1900-1908 period. In 1908-1914 i assume made Erfurt most real the Kar98az. best regards,Andy

Thanks, the unit marking is helpful, IR 118 was part of the 18th AK (Frankfort-Main), according to Anthony Carter the 18th AK was probably armed with the Gewehr98 and bayonets in 1905-06, which is supported by my bayonet observations (E&F Horster/05 x1 & Erfurt/06 x3, Carter lists a Alex Coppel/05 in his book).

While I have no other 118 IR recorded from any other rifle maker, there is another Erfurt/05 Gewehr98 recorded for the 80th IR (same AK)

As for the production numbers of the Kar.98a, they were very high, - the figures I gave in the prior post do not relate to Erfurt production of the kar.98a - Erfurt made in excess of 1.5 million Kar.98a between 1907-1918 (every year rifles have been recorded 1907-1918). Hard to believe wikipedia is actually right on the subject, it is typically a poor place for information, maybe it is changing...

AndyB said:

hello many thanks for the answer, unfortunally i dont have the picture of acceptance, but could say that the button disc was numbered for 118 IR , 11 Company, when i get there i will probably made some additional pictures, as i got from the kurator only few pictures to made some comments. On Wikipedia or Inet was mentioned the Erfurt made about 1,5 milion of Karbines 98 prior to 1918, is probably not real with the numbers You mentioned here, but it fully corespond what sayes Goerz about 54 rifles per day in 1902, which would bring about 15000-20000 rifles in a year, but the employments increased in WW1 so the numbers would be probably higher as 1900-1908 period. In 1908-1914 i assume made Erfurt most real the Kar98az. best regards,Andy

Click to expand...

Thanks for additional info about the unit stamp. best regards,Andy

Hi everyone,
I've spotted a "no suffix" Erfurt 1903 at a museum in southern France, it is numbered 8500.
It was displayed together with hunting shotguns : captured Gewehr 98 were apparently used for hunting by WWI French vets.