J.P. Sauer and DSM 34 Production

[mauser22]

OK.

I slipped up and let the cat out of the bag in a previous post (Mauser RF/SS
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....-RFSS-Contract
by JoeW) that I am "of the opinion" that Sauer assembled the DSM 34 for the Waffenstadt Suhl from components made by other Suhl Firms.

I really was not ready to present my case but it's out there and fragmented in three other posts.
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....co-1934-DSM-34
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....5-rf-ss-dsm-34
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....4-dated-DSM-34

Off to a lousy start as a Moderator I suppose.

I will get this cleaned up, pulled together, gather my evidence and edit this post accordingly.

Here is the marking I refer to adjacent to the early and late variation receiver marking on the Waffenstadt Suhl.

I initially dismissed this as only the receivers being made by Sauer.

One of the reasons I remain anxious to get to Suhl and do some looking myself.

And there may be nothing there.

I do not have one in my possession but Sauer definately made Geco Logo'd side by side shotguns this same time frame. Bob Simpson and I spent one whole afternoon knocking down several of those, both Geco Marked and Sauer marked. They are both numbered in Sauer's SN range for shotguns. Concurrently we knocked down and several DSM's from Bob's collection and compared the markings, proofs, and fonts, wood finish, metal finish, etc. I know Jim Cate is familiar with those shotguns. Those shotguns virtually mirror Sauer produced guns and have the same "hidden" logo on bottom barrel flats adjacent to proofs. I believe he even covers that in his book.

Then compare side by side the fonts with any Sauer of that vintage.

Do I have any documents?? No

Is this entirely speculation on my part? I guess so.

I am from the school of thought that lets the guns do the talking. If you examine things in close detail on many Third Reich firearms produced from 1933 to 1945 you will find some intriguing mysteries. This is one of them.

I beg anyone who is well studied on Sauer Production to explain this and make an objective comparison of these guns finish, material, proofs, and particularly SERIAL NUMBER FONTS with Sauer logo'd guns of the same era.

You will have to remove the trigger assembly to see this.

Feel free to comment here.

This should be fun.

[mauser22]

Why is J. P. Sauer one of the few major firearms producers in Third Reich Germany who's logo or trade name does not appear on the Deutsches Sportmodell?

Who assembled the Waffenstadt Suhl? (I figure - where is pretty much a given.)

What Suhl firm was one of the two Pre-adoption K98K producers already colaborating with Mauser Oberndorf obtaining tooling and guages, blueprints, etc to standardize production of that rifle for the new Government?

What other Suhl Firm(s) had the production facilities to devote space and resources to assemble this model from 1934 to 1936?

How many documents have been found in the Suhl Archives regarding production of DSM's by other Thuringian producers, or anything relative to the "Green Heart"?

Have any documents relative the Guilds of Thuringia surfaced discussing production of the DSM?

Plausible explanation for the serial number fonts: Either stamps made by Sauer or Sauer's stamps made by same maker??

Wood stain, finish, metal polish, heat treat, blue color parallels?

What does the Sauer logo on the receiver indicate? Receiver only made by Sauer?

C. G. Haenel clearly involved in production of the Waffenstadt Suhl, provided at least some (most) stocks, yet one example of Haenel logo'd DSM is documented. That receiver is not marked with Sauer Logo.

How do Haenel, Merkel, or other Suhl producer 's serial fonts compare to Sauer?

[mrfarb]

Jim,

I may be able to help you with this. I have at least 3 documents relating to .22 Kal barrels and JP Sauer- these are Preisliste of barrel production- they aren't anything to do with assembly though.

I planned to scan them- these may be of interest to you.

Mike

[mauser22]

I like it here

[mrfarb]

I hope this is a helpful document. I have 4 in a series- I will happily email them to you for your personal research. I may use them in the next book, but want to show the forum an example (all are exactly like this but detail other operations).

These Preisliste! documents show the actual cost of each operation. Each operation was given a value, which determined the final cost of the item being made.

Check out the JP Sauer stamp on the docs (pretty standard JPS stamp on all the docs I have). Also note the drawing number of the barrel- 05 D 321-1- wish I had that blueprint, it would tell you a lot. Alas....

[mauser99]

Very interesting Farb. Definetly small caliber barrels but for what?? It's dated 42 so what could these be for?? Maybe they made the barrel for the Gustloff kkw's?? We all know they couldnt make k98 barrels so maybe their .22 barrles sucked too. This also shows that JPS was waffenstadt suhl !!!!! It's right one their factory stamp!!
Mystery solved.

[3371940]

OK.

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....4-dated-DSM-34

I beg anyone who is well studied on Sauer Production to explain this and make an objective comparison of these guns finish, material, proofs, and particularly SERIAL NUMBER FONTS with Sauer logo'd guns of the same era.

You will have to remove the trigger assembly to see this.

Jim:

Just got off the phone w my dad who had 1934 waffenstadt suhl dsm 34 in his safe for several years. He's pretty certain that the rifle has the S&S logo like you pictured under the trigger. If I have time this weekend I will break it down for a photo. The Geco as well.

[mrfarb]

Very interesting Farb. Definetly small caliber barrels but for what?? It's dated 42 so what could these be for?? Maybe they made the barrel for the Gustloff kkw's?? We all know they couldnt make k98 barrels so maybe their .22 barrles sucked too. This also shows that JPS was waffenstadt suhl !!!!! It's right one their factory stamp!!
Mystery solved.

The drawing number would tell you, but I don't have that drawing. It's very possible contract barrel for someone- a bit late for even the .22 conversion kit?

One can't forget that in Suhl area it was very common for more than one maker to get together and manufacture items.

[mauser99]

The drawing number would tell you, but I don't have that drawing. It's very possible contract barrel for someone- a bit late for even the .22 conversion kit?

One can't forget that in Suhl area it was very common for more than one maker to get together and manufacture items.

My point exactly. Waffenstadt suhl only produced dsm34's for 4 years if I remember correctly. I can only think of Gustloff as a .22kal rifle producer in the 1942 range. Basicly using the e/n proof to date production past april 1940.

[mauser22]

.22's still being made in 42 just up the holler at Zella Mehlis for sure (albeit in limited numbers).