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Thread: ZF41 Study

  1. #111
    Senior Member kentomon's Avatar
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    Default ZF41 Types

    Some pictures from my website for review.
    The difference between ZF41 Type1, Type2 and Type3
    zielfernrohr013012.jpg


    The development of the ZF41 series made by cxn (Emil Busch)
    zielfernrohr067003.jpg

    Comparison of ZF41 scope Body
    zielfernrohr067004.jpg

    For more Information see this page.
    http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/zielfernrohr_013.htm
    ZF41 information wanted! http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/

  2. #112
    Beavis Moderator Intern mdarnell19's Avatar
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    Ken, it can be frustrating when people use your info in the incorrect manner. I know it happens to Bruce and Mike all the time. Keep up the good work. It's largely because of your great website that I like the Zf41 so much.

  3. #113
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    During my research of M91/30 rifles history I had discovered some documents related to Soviet orders at German optical factories in late 1920's-early 1930's. It's not a secret that soviet PT and PE scopes are based at Busch Visar #5 scopes.
    Serial Visar # 5 scopes were modified by Germans according to Sovied requirements and received windage settings, and at the base of those models were created PT and PE scopes. However, soviets set another goal to Germans, and Emil Busch factory particulary - they requested creation of long eye relief scope, that was mounted in the area of the rear sight. In their letter dated January 1930 Busch factory says that creation of such scope is possible, but they consider it as bad idea.
    And 8-9 years later Busch created ZF scope. Coincidence?

    "Zur Frage des erweiterten Augenabstandes von 25 cm möchten wir folge des mitteilen :
    An sich ist die Durchführung eines auf 25 cm erweiterten Augenabstandes sowohl optisch als auch konstruktiv technisch erfüllbar, doch bedeutet die konstruktive Ausführung eine vollkommene Umrechnung und Umkonstruktion in optischer und technischer Beziehung. Die Zielfernrohre würden wesentlich von den sonst gebräuchlichen Typen abweichen, auch würde der obengenannte Preis durch einen erweiterten Augenabstand naturgenäss eine starke Beeinflussung erfahren, und ferner würden die Liefertermine wesentlich länger, voraussichtlich um etwa 3-4 Monate sein müssen
    Allgemein möchten wir noch erwähnen, dass wir uns von einem erweiterten Augenabstand keine wesentlichen Vorteile versprechen, sondern dass lach unserer Ansicht diese Einrichtung sehr grosse Nachteile hat. Das Gesichtsfeld würde weniger als ein Drittel des Jetzigen sein, und man würde nicht die Möglichkeit haben, das Abkommen um soviel zu versteller wie es bei den aus der Schusstafel der Abnahmebedingungen hervergenenden Entfernungen notwendig ist. Ausserdem würde dem Auge durch den grossen Abstand erheblich mehr Nebenlicht zugeführt, was eine Erschwerung der Orientierung des Auges und cor Erfassung des Zieles mit sich bringen würde."
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  4. #114
    Beavis Moderator Intern mdarnell19's Avatar
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    Alex, that is great information! Thanks for sharing.

  5. #115
    Senior Member kentomon's Avatar
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    Very interesting, thank you very much!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratnik View Post
    During my research of M91/30 rifles history I had discovered some documents related to Soviet orders at German optical factories in late 1920's-early 1930's. It's not a secret that soviet PT and PE scopes are based at Busch Visar #5 scopes.
    Serial Visar # 5 scopes were modified by Germans according to Sovied requirements and received windage settings, and at the base of those models were created PT and PE scopes. However, soviets set another goal to Germans, and Emil Busch factory particulary - they requested creation of long eye relief scope, that was mounted in the area of the rear sight. In their letter dated January 1930 Busch factory says that creation of such scope is possible, but they consider it as bad idea.
    And 8-9 years later Busch created ZF scope. Coincidence?

    "Zur Frage des erweiterten Augenabstandes von 25 cm möchten wir folge des mitteilen :
    An sich ist die Durchführung eines auf 25 cm erweiterten Augenabstandes sowohl optisch als auch konstruktiv technisch erfüllbar, doch bedeutet die konstruktive Ausführung eine vollkommene Umrechnung und Umkonstruktion in optischer und technischer Beziehung. Die Zielfernrohre würden wesentlich von den sonst gebräuchlichen Typen abweichen, auch würde der obengenannte Preis durch einen erweiterten Augenabstand naturgenäss eine starke Beeinflussung erfahren, und ferner würden die Liefertermine wesentlich länger, voraussichtlich um etwa 3-4 Monate sein müssen
    Allgemein möchten wir noch erwähnen, dass wir uns von einem erweiterten Augenabstand keine wesentlichen Vorteile versprechen, sondern dass lach unserer Ansicht diese Einrichtung sehr grosse Nachteile hat. Das Gesichtsfeld würde weniger als ein Drittel des Jetzigen sein, und man würde nicht die Möglichkeit haben, das Abkommen um soviel zu versteller wie es bei den aus der Schusstafel der Abnahmebedingungen hervergenenden Entfernungen notwendig ist. Ausserdem würde dem Auge durch den grossen Abstand erheblich mehr Nebenlicht zugeführt, was eine Erschwerung der Orientierung des Auges und cor Erfassung des Zieles mit sich bringen würde."
    ZF41 information wanted! http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/

  6. #116
    Moderator Slash's Avatar
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    I know next to nothing in regard to the ZF41 but can provide this example for your research. cag Z.F.40 converted to 41/1. Blue + lubrication marking. Original serial number on top of ocular tube ground away. 2__8 remains visible. Black paint applied to ground area and several other areas of the scope. Serial number 4565 applied to the side of the ocular tube. Lazy V stamping to inside of rear arm of the mount. All of this may be commonly encountered, just trying to provide the details.
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  7. #117
    Senior Member kentomon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash View Post
    I know next to nothing in regard to the ZF41 but can provide this example for your research. cag Z.F.40 converted to 41/1. Blue + lubrication marking. Original serial number on top of ocular tube ground away. 2__8 remains visible. Black paint applied to ground area and several other areas of the scope. Serial number 4565 applied to the side of the ocular tube. Lazy V stamping to inside of rear arm of the mount. All of this may be commonly encountered, just trying to provide the details.
    Thank you for the data. Is the former number 5 digit from the width of 2 and 8? It seems to be longer than 4565. 4 digit is the correct range for cag scopes. I wonder what have occured. Very interesting.
    ZF41 information wanted! http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/

  8. #118
    Moderator Slash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kentomon View Post
    Thank you for the data. Is the former number 5 digit from the width of 2 and 8? It seems to be longer than 4565. 4 digit is the correct range for cag scopes. I wonder what have occured. Very interesting.
    Happy to help. The former number was four digits. It looks a little longer than the 4565 but in reality they are the same length. Even with a powerful loupe I can not discern the two center digits. Interesting that the initial serial was removed and then renumbered.

  9. #119
    Senior Member kentomon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash View Post
    Happy to help. The former number was four digits. It looks a little longer than the 4565 but in reality they are the same length. Even with a powerful loupe I can not discern the two center digits. Interesting that the initial serial was removed and then renumbered.
    Thank you again!
    ZF41 information wanted! http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/

  10. #120
    Senior Member kentomon's Avatar
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    As I have mentioned in the other thread, I have renewed my database list by adding data on mount markings.
    http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/ZF41database191117.pdf

    If your scope is already on the list, please add the data of the mount to fill the blank.
    And new data is always welcome. Pictures will be great.
    Thank you for your contribution.
    ZF41 information wanted! http://zielfernrohr.b.la9.jp/

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