Third Party Press

Erfurt 1893 g91

toulon44

Senior Member
hi

just to share with you my ERFURT 1993 G91 not in very good condition but all matching , heavily sanded by the previous owner , it's a pity , personally i prefer to keep rifles as they're , i haven't fired it but i'll test it at the range soon ( i hope) with reloaded cartridges ( 318 diameter bullets are not so easy to find in france )

DSC025491.jpgDSC025501.jpgDSC025511.jpgDSC025521.jpgDSC025531.jpgDSC025541.jpgDSC025551.jpgDSC025561.jpgDSC025571.jpgDSC025591.jpg
 
hi

just to share with you my ERFURT 1993 G91 not in very good condition but all matching , heavily sanded by the previous owner , it's a pity , personally i prefer to keep rifles as they're , i haven't fired it but i'll test it at the range soon ( i hope) with reloaded cartridges ( 318 diameter bullets are not so easy to find in france )

View attachment 95285View attachment 95286View attachment 95287View attachment 95288View attachment 95289View attachment 95290View attachment 95291View attachment 95292View attachment 95293View attachment 95294

Toulon 44 ,

very careful with firing this G 91 , i have seeing ,many years ago, a collector once injuring one of his hands while he was testfiring his kar 88 ( lucky.... just aiming in a sandbox ), the receiver, bolt and the rear of the stock was broken.....!(too powerfull rounds...) :facepalm:

regards Batangueno
 
Toulon 44 ,

very careful with firing this G 91 , i have seeing ,many years ago, a collector once injuring one of his hands while he was testfiring his kar 88 ( lucky.... just aiming in a sandbox ), the receiver, bolt and the rear of the stock was broken.....!(too powerfull rounds...) :facepalm:

regards Batangueno

hello BATANGUENO

thanks , i know that g88 family rifles must be fired carefully , first due to the bore diameter 318 instead of the 323 cal found on the other models G98 , 98A etc.... despite the S bullet modification , and the pressure , this is the reason for which i'll never use WW1 or 2 ammo only reloaded cartridges , 2 month ago i have seen at the stand a friend shooting a KAR 88 with WW2 german ammo , no problem occurs but i wasn't very confident , i have explained the reason , he didn't know that .
so i thank you once more and be sure i'll check it in safe condition
regards
bernard
 
Guys . gew88's in german service were .318 on very early production. With problems of over pressure and premature bore wear such mainly due to bullet jacket material fouling and 'new' smokeless powder in short order gew88's were made with .321" bores. It's pretty rare to encounter a gew88 with other than a nominal .321 bore excepting those south american czech rebarrels that went stupid with commercial .318 bore diameters - basically they went backwards !.
Anyhow any gew88 , Gew91 or Kar88 will handle .323 bullets without issues I have found if the bullets are kept below 180 grains And 'S' marked (which lessens amount of bullet which actually contacts/rides bore ) . Gew88's with the 'S' patrone mark have always been unfailing in such use as they have had chambers & throats modified for such use and with the long throats and nominally .321 bores was not an issue for the germans in the great war.
When you start using high pressure loadings with bullets above 180 gns that are .323" and have considerably more surface riding on the bore you can run into over pressure and or old metal issues. That's just common sense if you reload alot and deal with this exact issue...and I do. Anyhow gew88's have proven to me to be quite accurate rifles...astonishingly so.
 
Guys . gew88's in german service were .318 on very early production. With problems of over pressure and premature bore wear such mainly due to bullet jacket material fouling and 'new' smokeless powder in short order gew88's were made with .321" bores. It's pretty rare to encounter a gew88 with other than a nominal .321 bore excepting those south american czech rebarrels that went stupid with commercial .318 bore diameters - basically they went backwards !.
Anyhow any gew88 , Gew91 or Kar88 will handle .323 bullets without issues I have found if the bullets are kept below 180 grains And 'S' marked (which lessens amount of bullet which actually contacts/rides bore ) . Gew88's with the 'S' patrone mark have always been unfailing in such use as they have had chambers & throats modified for such use and with the long throats and nominally .321 bores was not an issue for the germans in the great war.
When you start using high pressure loadings with bullets above 180 gns that are .323" and have considerably more surface riding on the bore you can run into over pressure and or old metal issues. That's just common sense if you reload alot and deal with this exact issue...and I do. Anyhow gew88's have proven to me to be quite accurate rifles...astonishingly so.

greatly appreciated your input i'll check the real bore cal
thanks a lot
 
guys . Gew88's in german service were .318 on very early production. With problems of over pressure and premature bore wear such mainly due to bullet jacket material fouling and 'new' smokeless powder in short order gew88's were made with .321" bores. It's pretty rare to encounter a gew88 with other than a nominal .321 bore excepting those south american czech rebarrels that went stupid with commercial .318 bore diameters - basically they went backwards !.
Anyhow any gew88 , gew91 or kar88 will handle .323 bullets without issues i have found if the bullets are kept below 180 grains and 's' marked (which lessens amount of bullet which actually contacts/rides bore ) . Gew88's with the 's' patrone mark have always been unfailing in such use as they have had chambers & throats modified for such use and with the long throats and nominally .321 bores was not an issue for the germans in the great war.
When you start using high pressure loadings with bullets above 180 gns that are .323" and have considerably more surface riding on the bore you can run into over pressure and or old metal issues. That's just common sense if you reload alot and deal with this exact issue...and i do. Anyhow gew88's have proven to me to be quite accurate rifles...astonishingly so.

none of the above information is correct .
 
I'd trust Bill's word over that of most others...

In fact, the only time I've ever shot a G88 was with MauserBill.

What do you fault in his premise ernie?

Yes, ernie, it would be very helpful to state where you find the information inaccurate and why.
This is a confusing subject with the Germans making multiple modifications over the life of the Mod. 88 series,
as well as the non German made replacement barrels.
 
No one is above review or criticism, but critiquing MauserBill's post with such a blanket statement is rather unconvincing, - be specific in your criticism.

I should also point out that all such discussions regarding ammunition safety in these old antiques are opinions and I expect everyone who gives advice on this subject to do so with the understanding it is an opinion. So if Ernie or anyone else does venture down ammunition safety in antique rifles, be sure to make it clear this is only opinion.
 
First, the German military never used a .318 groove bore . The first barrels were .314 - .3208 . The German ammo tests say that and all you have to do is measure about 20 first year rifles with original barrels to see that they all have that bore size . In early 1890 they went to .311 - 3208 , they made the grooves deeper by making the bore smaller . The throat was never " lengthened " as it was already 3 times longer from the old P-88 bullet than needed for the short .321 dia 154 grain S bullet . The small Czech barrels [ they run .306 - .3168 ish ] are not old style German military , they are civilian size made for .3158 dia bullets , not .318 bullets . Mauser bill was the source of a lot of bad info on Gew-88 rifles . He did not even know what a small Czech barrel was until I told him . He thought the notch in the 05 receiver was for S ammo clearance . He did not even know what a real Gew-88 S was until I told him . Even though I have fired over 5000 rounds through over 100 different Gew-88 rifles , I would never think to tell anyone how to shoot one .
 
So, are you mag from the numerous debates with Bill? Sure sound like him, however this is outside of my specialty and MauserBill has been absent from the hobby for a couple years. I doubt he will come and defend his position, assuming he still holds the opinions he held years ago.

It is very possible he has changed his views, such things evolve as you learn more, anyone who has ever written an article, blog post or made a forum post knows this very well... anyway, glad you took the time to elaborate further.
 

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top