Third Party Press

Portuguese contract Vergueiro 6.5 caliber Model 1904 - Jon Speed

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Paul, Thanks to Lockhoven, who is the only person ever to have the chance to handle and photograph many of the rifles returned to the Mauser firm in early 1970 period by the French. Lockhoven was asked by the Mauser firm to go through all these and make inventory of the models, calibers and time period of production etc. Hidden in this pile of some 800 rifles were many one of kind (MUSTER) examples from black powder days to WW2. One of the Muster examples was Made by Mauser Oberndorf in 1902 and 1903 for the up coming Portuguese contract to make what became the Vergueiro 6.5 caliber model 1904. Even though actual production was done by Mauser Berlin (DWM) the first series of Prototypes (Muster examples) were made by Mauser. This rifle had many features similar to the well known Mannlicher rifles of the same period.

1. Top view action to show Mauser name and date 1903 serial number 10
2. Right view action
3. Right view rifle, as can be seen the push button magazine box release that was used on production rifles is not included in this example. Also in this pile were a little known Portuguese 1904 carbine which is rarely encountered
4. Carbine right / left
5. Early version production rifle 1904 top below later version with new front sight unit
 

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Portuguese caliber .303 British Carbine

Paul, Still on the Portuguese subject we have an unknown Mauser carbine in a special configuration and caliber .303 British.

In the 1929-32 period Mauser firm was going through a tough financial period during the 1929-32 World crisis. After heavy investments on 2 pending contracts for Chile and Paraguay for Standard Modells, these 2 contracts fell apart due to political events in both lands. Portugal asked Mauser to make up some special carbines in caliber .303 British. These carbines had full length stocks with Nose ends looking similar to those on some British Enfield rifles. The rifles had special magazine boxes with push button release floor plate. 2500 of these were made for Portugal in 1932. To date no carbine like this has ever surfaced.

1. Target data with title, date etc.
2. Right / Left view of special Carbine

These images come from Lockhoven Mauser files. In other docs for the specail carbine there was interest shown to make this carbine with a new type of Rotary magazine .We have parts listing that indicate this Rotary magazine. Mauser mysteries never stop comming along. Jon
 

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Paul, Still on the Portuguese subject we have an unknown Mauser carbine in a special configuration and caliber .303 British.

In the 1929-32 period Mauser firm was going through a tough financial period during the 1929-32 World crisis. After heavy investments on 2 pending contracts for Chile and Paraguay for Standard Modells, these 2 contracts fell apart due to political events in both lands. Portugal asked Mauser to make up some special carbines in caliber .303 British. These carbines had full length stocks with Nose ends looking similar to those on some British Enfield rifles. The rifles had special magazine boxes with push button release floor plate. 2500 of these were made for Portugal in 1932. To date no carbine like this has ever surfaced.

1. Target data with title, date etc.
2. Right / Left view of special Carbine

These images come from Lockhoven Mauser files. In other docs for the specail carbine there was interest shown to make this carbine with a new type of Rotary magazine .We have parts listing that indicate this Rotary magazine. Mauser mysteries never stop comming along. Jon


Hello
I just joined this forum and would like to say Hello to all members.
I am a Portuguese collector and target shooter and interested in Portuguese ordnance weapons. Inter alia I have a Steyr Mannlicher 1896 cavalry carbine in 6,5x53R, serial number 553, and a Mauser “Vergueiro” 1904 originally in 6,5x58, serial number J 5900 later converted in the Portuguese Arsenal of “Braço de Prata” to 7,92x57 (8mm Mauser) on 1939.
Lee Enfield are also common in Portuguese collections namely due to the fact that the Portuguese expeditionary army in France during the IWW was equipped, in 1917, with some 40.000, No.3 MKI, M/1917 e M/1917-A. The reason for this shift from Mauser Vergueiro – the usual rifle of the Portuguese army since 1904, but using 6,5x58 ammo – was that the Portuguese army was integrated in the English army fighting in France and therefore was much easier to supply .303 ammo to all the troops involved.
After the disaster of La Lys where thousands of weapons were lost, apparently only about 15.000 Lee Enfield’s rifles returned to Portugal after the War and served in Portugal and the colonies, mainly in Africa, where they were popular given the English colonies neighborhood.
In a Report from the Army Inspection on 1931 the Lee Enfield’s were declared to be in bad condition, needing general repair, or substitution.
However they were never popular being the Mauser the favorite rifle, using the 6,5x58 cartridge until 1937 when new Mauser K98K were purchased from Germany. More Mauser rifles were purchased on 1941, in such a way that at the time Portugal had about 190.000 fully working Mausers in 8x57.
In the meantime about 40.000 Vergueiros 1904 were converted to 7,92x57 IS Mauser, an operation involving the modification of the action, re-chambering, re-rifling, and shortening the original barrel, new from sight protection iron “ears” and some modification to the rear sights to adapt to the new caliber.
This is the basic history of purchases and modifications in the Portuguese army since 1904 – I have never ever heard about a 1932 order of Mausers chambered to .303, either for precision shooting or otherwise. The .303 cartridge was not the normal ordnance cartridge in Portugal and an order of 2.500 Mauser rifles chambered for this cartridge is a big surprise to me.
In addition I am sure that such rifles never surfaced in Portugal, and therefore the sole possibility I can imagine is an order advanced as intermediary for any other country… I simply cannot imagine which at that time!
But is it confirmed that those rifles were effectively produced and paid?
Could it have been a simple study and a couple of prototypes only, without further consequences?
Sorry for the long post but this was really something new to me!
 
I am sure, from reading Jon Speed's comments, that this was just an experimental proposal, - your prototype line of thought.

Notice the dates, - in 1931 the Portuguese "In a Report from the Army Inspection on 1931 the Lee Enfield’s were declared to be in bad condition, needing general repair, or substitution."; the proposal occurred in 1932 or after.

Seems to me this project was part of that process, to replace (substitute) the Enfield's in bad condition. I am sure nothing came of it, as Jon would have noticed the contract or payments in his ledgers. Portugal probably decided it wasn't worth it and replaced them on a more conventional line, rather than creating a new model or continuing this caliber in their arsenal.

Jon will probably read this in time, if he has further comments, I will add them.
 
BobT comments regarding Portuguese use of .303

Paul: I’m pretty sure the Portuguese obtained 303 Vickers MGs during the war from Britain to go with their SMLEs and that these remained in Portuguese service for a good number of years. In my collection I have a Portuguese-produced 303 round dated in the late 1920s or early 1930s. Bob
 
Jon Speed reply

Paul, On the Portugal special Mauser, the data I have on this came from an Order / Offer book that showed that the Portugal Rep firm Freitas & Gamero ordered 2500 examples described as Special Model with Enfield type front end and caliber .303.

Cost was 162.50 Swiss Franks per unit. Sales condition as First 100 units in 7 months and last 2400 2 months later. We have Parts lists for 2 variations of this rifle and the docs you showed. I did not find any financial movement for this firm or Portugal in the period 1931-33. By this time Portugal was also considering to order the Standard Modell so it appears Mauser may have only made a up a few MUSTER examples that never went into production. Portugal was ordering other weapons like Lugers and pocket Pistols 7.65 etc. By 1935/36 Portugal got into the first 98k deal. Regards, Jon
 
Order / Offer book recording of the 2500 unit deal with Portugal

Jon Speed sent the entry for this proposal - attached.
 

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Paul, On the Portugal special Mauser, the data I have on this came from an Order / Offer book that showed that the Portugal Rep firm Freitas & Gamero ordered 2500 examples described as Special Model with Enfield type front end and caliber .303.

Cost was 162.50 Swiss Franks per unit. Sales condition as First 100 units in 7 months and last 2400 2 months later. We have Parts lists for 2 variations of this rifle and the docs you showed. I did not find any financial movement for this firm or Portugal in the period 1931-33. By this time Portugal was also considering to order the Standard Modell so it appears Mauser may have only made a up a few MUSTER examples that never went into production. Portugal was ordering other weapons like Lugers and pocket Pistols 7.65 etc. By 1935/36 Portugal got into the first 98k deal. Regards, Jon

In fact I believe the MUSTER was never produced in commercial quantities.
As to the K98k contract it produced the rifles known as Portuguese Mauser 1937 with the national Republic crest and year.
ON 1939 a new contract for the modification of Vergueiro 1904 Mausers was signed and the rifles were modified to 8x57 IS caliber mainly in the Lisbon "Braço de Prata" arsenal.
A new contract for more rifles produced the Mausers 1941, again with the Portuguese Republic crest and date.
At this time - 1941 - about 190,000 8x57 Mauser rifles were in service, in Portugal including the modified Vergueiro, the 1937 and the 1941 models.
In the colonies some Vergueiros still in the original 6,5x58 caliber (and even Steyrs 1896 in 5x53R and Kropachek 1886 were in service with the local troops) with some Lee Enfield .303 rifles.
As to machine guns, there were in fact some very few Vickers from the IWW, but after the majority were in 8x57 (more exactly 7.92x57) Mauser caliber - Dreyse MG13, Breda, MG 42, and later the Madsen, the MG42/59 and the HK21 all in .308.
Portugal produced .303 cartridges mainly for export, as they were not much used by the Portuguese armed forces since the late 30's/early 40's.
On 1942, some pistol-machine-guns Steyr in 9 mm were purchased and in the following year, 1943, 4.500 Parabellum 9 mm pistols were purchased.
And no further purchases occurred until the African colonial wars started on 1961.
 
I am pretty sure that is what Jon Speed said, that these never made it to production. Only a couple made, one of which survived the war and "internment" in France.

Anyway, Jon was good enough to follow up this morning with another Freitas & Gameiro picture set.

I also have some great photos of different weapons types that the Portugal Rep Freitas & Gomerio were interested in . Each Photo has the Rep firms stamp on it. Lockhoven got these directly from a Portuguese Military official years ago. I will send you image of one of these in next E mail. Regards, Jon




In fact I believe the MUSTER was never produced in commercial quantities.
 

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Neat discussion always thought the weapons of Portugal were neat. But like the model 1886 kropatschek better maybe it's the look of it that I like better and the design of the tubular magazine. But would guess those rifles were in service for a long time I do have a couple rounds for that rifle dated 1918 on the cases. Would like to own one but I hardly ever see any of them for sale and finding ammo for them also become questionable. And thanks for bringing this up Paul it's nice how much information you have on the Mauser rifle contract department. Really gives us a inside story of these pieces.
 
Neat discussion always thought the weapons of Portugal were neat. But like the model 1886 kropatschek better maybe it's the look of it that I like better and the design of the tubular magazine. But would guess those rifles were in service for a long time I do have a couple rounds for that rifle dated 1918 on the cases. Would like to own one but I hardly ever see any of them for sale and finding ammo for them also become questionable. And thanks for bringing this up Paul it's nice how much information you have on the Mauser rifle contract department. Really gives us a inside story of these pieces.

Usually Hermann Historica - http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_en/ - auctions military arms from all world, and in the last auction they sold 2 Portuguese 1886 kropatschek for a very good price!
 
Usually Hermann Historica - http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_en/ - auctions military arms from all world, and in the last auction they sold 2 Portuguese 1886 kropatschek for a very good price!


The condition of the rifle was excellent:

http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_en/onlinekatalogeneu.html

Lot Nr. 982
Gewehr Kropatschek Mod. 1886
Kal. 8 x 60R, Nr. J153. Nummerngleich bis auf Schloss, wie üblich. Spiegelblanker Lauf. Fertigung "OE.W.F.G.STEYR". Achtschüssiges Röhrenmagazin. Umschalthebel für Einzelschuss. Vollständige, originale Brünierung. Schloss weiß poliert. Nummerngleicher Nussholzschaft komplett mit blankem Putzstock und originaler Beriemung. Spitzenstück in neuwertiger Erhaltung. Länge 132 cm.

Erlaubnispflichtig
Condition: I Limit: 250 EURO
 

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