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Thread: RESEARCH PROJECT - Mod. 71 and Mod. 71/84 - Craig Brown

  1. #11
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Default Further thoughts on this subject - Jon Speed

    Paul, On the handwritten note by PM on the 1912 doc, PM mentions a factor I just saw in another doc listing Paul's earnings on the 71/84 and it went like this, as written in his note where he got 28 Cents per rifle ONLY AFTER the number of 200,000 units were reached for any given deal. The first 200,000 were calculated as .50 cents per Rifle, that's how the data in the other typed docs 1912 that shows the Total Licence earnings on the Total number of 71/94 rifles made by the other state firms that we mentioned etc... Man, it gets wilder every time you locate a new doc.! Jon

    Further...

    Paul, looking more at all the PM earnings docs, I tried to work all the financial numbers and may have made an error in that up to FIRST 200,00 the PM cut was .28 cents and after that .50 Cents for all rest etc. Even then I don't come up with final figure as shown in typed 1912 doc of some 580,000 Marks etc. I better stop looking and trying to match up data with other docs, but the typed doc is a Final version proved to the Board members in 1912 yearly report ! Jon

    Further...

    Paul, I can 100% confirm the Total number of 71/84 rifles made by State Firms as the 1,161,148 units as in the typed financial doc of 1912 that shows this figure for total License fees in Marks = 1 Mark Per Rilfe for Firm. Besides these earnings the firm got money for the Patent Rights use by the State Firms for all Military Rifles made for German Army through 1913 etc. This data is listed as Royalty payments figure for PM and Mauser Firm etc etc. Jon

  2. #12
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Default Vertical feed Model 1871 Experimental - Jon Speed

    The following is a peek at a very rare experimental system Paul Mauser developed in the 1880's, the words that follow are Jon Speed's:

    Paul, As promised here are pics of my Oberndorf 1883 Test rifle set up for the Paul Mauser patented Vertical feed magazine which dumbly came on line well after the 71/84 rifles went into production. This Model 71 system has most of main features also used on the 71/84 rifles in regards to Exector. Bolt has a screwed on Stud that mates with a surface on the rear of magazine that activates the mag spring activated loader function on a horizontal plain as bolt is fully back. It actually works ok from Static position but any jerks or quick movements keeps it form full function, so useless for any real military aspects as was learned in Spandau tests. Bullet had to have a Flat nose as well so need other than standard 11/60 cartridges to function. etc. Regards, Jon

    1. Top view of new system shows housing fitted to left side wall that takes magazine, Can see to slots for mounting feet on magazine
    2. Left view shows new magazine holding unit with a push button in center which operates the unlock clips that hold mag in place
    3.Date 1883
    4. Left view Mag mounted mag holds 8 rounds.
    5. Right view. Mag on
    6. Trp stud on bolt and magazine where stud makes contact and moves a large flat spring horizontally to right and drops 1 round into feed tray then snaps back in to place so other rounds can not fall out
    7. Right view mag alone with 11mm round with flat nose
    8. Left view mag alone and 11mm round
    9. Close up left view shows lock feet and lips of flat spring that activate dropping round into feed tray
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    Last edited by Loewe; 06-21-2016 at 06:12 PM.

  3. #13
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Default Vertical feed Model 1871 Experimental - Jon Speed

    Paul, here are 2 Paul Mauser patents for the Vertical feed magazine, first from May 1, 1887 and 2nd from Oct. 18, 1887 which show clearly how this looks and functions.

    The actual reason Paul designed such a system was to allow the Thousands of Model 71 rifles that were relegated to 2nd line arms to have a repeating capability as the 71/84 came on line. Several other groups in Germany like Loewe, Steyr had offered up their own Patents but after testing in Spandau all were rejected. This Mauser system functioned OK in static conditions, but were useless when movements were required and when not held in exact vertical position when jamming would occur etc. Similar units like this were tested on Serb Rifles etc. Jon
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    Last edited by Loewe; 06-21-2016 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #14
    Member geladen's Avatar
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    Default

    Here are mine:

    IG71 Amberg, s/n 2656, made 1877, issued 1877, B.17.R.10.160., buttplate tang
    Bavarian 17th Infantry Regiment

    K71 Steyr, s/n 8969, made 1876, issued 1877, 6.D.1.145., buttplate face
    6th Dragoon Regiment

    IG71/84 Spandau, s/n 6924, made 1888, no issue year, no unit mark

  5. #15
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks Bill, very helpful! I added them to the appropriate sections.

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    Default

    Hello,

    i'm very sorry to hear about Mr. Brown. I didn't know him personally but he awensered some specific questions of mine and i had a lot of respect for him knowledge. My condolence to his family.


    To bring his research forward here are my Mod. 71.


    Jägerbüchse M/71. Danzig 1876. All matching with sn. 4207. No unit markings.

    Karabiner M/71. Oesterr Waffeb Ges. 1876. Not matching. Bolt is C 5551 and the rest G 9504. Issued in 1877. Unit is 10. U. 5. 20.



    With kind regards

    Vincent

  7. #17
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks Vincent, I added the two rifles to the study, - we were all saddened by Craig's passing, he was involved in every study, book and research project I can think of, easily the most knowledgeable collector who participates on the forums. He helped everyone at one time or another and never resorted to petty egotistical outbursts, which is typical of the forums.

    Thanks for taking the time to add your two rifles to Craig's study. If you see others in Germany, try to gather up their data, Wolfgang has been a great help on this thread too, but the more eyes the better!

  8. #18
    Senior Member reich1900's Avatar
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    Default I.G.Mod.71/84.

    Here is some information on mine.
    1888 AMBERG 71/84
    Ser# 93518
    All matching with NO unit markings.
    Unmessed with excellent condition including the bore.

  9. #19
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    Default

    Thanks Reich, I added the rifle to the appropriate post!

  10. #20
    Senior Member tsmgguy's Avatar
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    Default 1887 Spandau I.G. 71/84, For Data Base

    For the data base:

    Spandau I.G. Mod 71/84, 1887, sn. 1085.

    This rifle seems to be unit marked on the top tang of the butt plate. These markings read:

    24. R.E.
    2.56.

    If on-line sources are right, this weapon was issued to the Ersatz-Batallion (replacement battalion) of the 24th infantry regiment, 2nd Company, Weapon #56. Does that sound about right?

    I know little about these rifles and bought this one because of its original excellent, unissued new condition. I don't think that it's ever been disassembled or fired. All serial numbers match, down to the bolt heads.
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    Last edited by tsmgguy; 04-05-2016 at 01:46 PM.
    Wanted: K98 Dou-42 bolt 5235b, and Port. bayonet G19383

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