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Thread: Mauser Banner Standard Modell Waffenamt 655

  1. #1
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    Default Mauser Banner Standard Modell Waffenamt 655

    Mauser Banner Waffenamt 655.........BILL
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    And a little bit more...........
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    Senior Member Turbo Archie's Avatar
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    Not sure what I'm looking at but man is that nice!!!!





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    **Wanted - Original un-dicked with late Steyr (bnz45) stock... Long shot but......
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    **

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    Community Organizer Hambone's Avatar
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    TA, that's a rare Standard Modell / DRP type diverted/accepted for German military (Heer) use. I think I've seen one other. Thanks for sharing that rifle Bill. Pic stickied.

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    Very nice, I like it alot.

  6. #6
    Moderator˛ Loewe's Avatar
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    Very nice rifle, some details that might help..

    Our database is very limited, both in size and detail to make any firm statements. To few report their rifles and those that do rarely provide complete information. However there are some things that are known and with what has been reported/observed we can make some reasonably accurate speculation.

    This is a late Standard-Modell, which as Craig says has military acceptance. This rifle (B82143) is one of the later ones, the earliest with an military acceptance is a B77xxx and it has a 1937 military coded barrel on it (most later B prefix SM have military barrels, probably because they were making the 98k and it was more cost effective to just use one source- verses a separate one for commercial rifles- the DRP rifles have commercial marked barrels because MO wasn’t making barrels for the military in 1933). Obviously e/655 was not in use in 1937-1938 so these might just be rifles in inventory sold to the Army at the start of the war? Not all of the late Standard-Modells (in this B77xxx – B83xxx range) have the military acceptance pattern so not all went to the Army, but at least some rifles starting in the B77xxx range did.

    Some background- In 1929 the Standard-Modell lost the trials to a shortened version of the Kar98b, and this was to become the Kar.98k (the origins of the Kar98k was this shortened 98b rifle, not the Standard-Modell or Mauser Banner K) - Original SM foreign sales date to 1930/31 and have a straight bolt, these last well into 1937, during 1937 they seem to start adding these bent bolts to the typical B prefix SM rifles (retaining the bottom sling arrangement), probably to make it more appealing for military/police type sales or because of practicality, - by 1937/38 when these seem to show up they were making the 98k and it would have been a hassle to have different parts in production?

    In 1933 Mauser introduced the “Mauser Banner K” for sale to government agencies (DR/DRP- some to SA/SS). I believe this was because the Reichsheer was in the process of adopting the shortened Kar98b and obviously the Railway and Postal authorities would have preferred a version of the new style for their police forces contract.

    Anyway, I did not cover much of this in the Mar/09 MRJ article as it was primarily focused on the 1933/34 Mauser Banner K and the circumstances and events that created them. (including much on the Reichsbahn / Bahnschutz and Reichspost / Postschutz organizations).

    If anyone else has a Standard-Modell or Mauser Banner K, consider reporting the rifle? Barrel coding is very important, especially on early Standard-Modell’s and Mauser Banner K as very few have been documented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo Archie View Post
    Not sure what I'm looking at but man is that nice!!!!





    ..

  7. #7
    Senior Member mauser99's Avatar
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    Wink S.M.

    As a side note not mentioned by s.s. is mauser's short lived e/655 was used in 40/41 only. so that is the only dated link to inspection of this rifle... As read in b.b.o.w. Some export rifle shipments were not fullfilled as german military demand went up. And its not uncommon to see leftover Banner/standard modell receivers in straight up k98 trim..

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    Default Model 1933 Mauser Standard Modell barrel codes

    Quote Originally Posted by SimsonSuhl View Post
    Very nice rifle, some details that might help..

    Our database is very limited, both in size and detail to make any firm statements. To few report their rifles and those that do rarely provide complete information. However there are some things that are known and with what has been reported/observed we can make some reasonably accurate speculation.

    This is a late Standard-Modell, which as Craig says has military acceptance. This rifle (B82143) is one of the later ones, the earliest with an military acceptance is a B77xxx and it has a 1937 military coded barrel on it (most later B prefix SM have military barrels, probably because they were making the 98k and it was more cost effective to just use one source- verses a separate one for commercial rifles- the DRP rifles have commercial marked barrels because MO wasn’t making barrels for the military in 1933). Obviously e/655 was not in use in 1937-1938 so these might just be rifles in inventory sold to the Army at the start of the war? Not all of the late Standard-Modells (in this B77xxx – B83xxx range) have the military acceptance pattern so not all went to the Army, but at least some rifles starting in the B77xxx range did.

    Some background- In 1929 the Standard-Modell lost the trials to a shortened version of the Kar98b, and this was to become the Kar.98k (the origins of the Kar98k was this shortened 98b rifle, not the Standard-Modell or Mauser Banner K) - Original SM foreign sales date to 1930/31 and have a straight bolt, these last well into 1937, during 1937 they seem to start adding these bent bolts to the typical B prefix SM rifles (retaining the bottom sling arrangement), probably to make it more appealing for military/police type sales or because of practicality, - by 1937/38 when these seem to show up they were making the 98k and it would have been a hassle to have different parts in production?

    In 1933 Mauser introduced the “Mauser Banner K” for sale to government agencies (DR/DRP- some to SA/SS). I believe this was because the Reichsheer was in the process of adopting the shortened Kar98b and obviously the Railway and Postal authorities would have preferred a version of the new style for their police forces contract.

    Anyway, I did not cover much of this in the Mar/09 MRJ article as it was primarily focused on the 1933/34 Mauser Banner K and the circumstances and events that created them. (including much on the Reichsbahn / Bahnschutz and Reichspost / Postschutz organizations).

    If anyone else has a Standard-Modell or Mauser Banner K, consider reporting the rifle? Barrel coding is very important, especially on early Standard-Modell’s and Mauser Banner K as very few have been documented.
    I realize this is an old posting but I just ran across it today and joined the forum. If the poster, SimsonSuhl, is still researching barrel codings, I have a Mauser banner Model 1933 Mauser Standard Modell Carbine made in 1934, s/n 90###. If you're still interested, I'd be happy to relay any information you're looking for to forward your research. In case it matters, this rifle has 95%+ original finish and appears to be completely original. I purchased it at a gun show, so unfortunately I do not have any history on how it came to the US.....

  9. #9
    Senior Member jack944's Avatar
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    Default Never saw one

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunther View Post
    I realize this is an old posting but I just ran across it today and joined the forum. If the poster, SimsonSuhl, is still researching barrel codings, I have a Mauser banner Model 1933 Mauser Standard Modell Carbine made in 1934, s/n 90###. If you're still interested, I'd be happy to relay any information you're looking for to forward your research. In case it matters, this rifle has 95%+ original finish and appears to be completely original. I purchased it at a gun show, so unfortunately I do not have any history on how it came to the US.....
    Wow I missed this one last year....must have been sleeping that week....

  10. #10
    Super Over the Top Moderator -1/2 bruce98k's Avatar
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    Default Correction on Standard Modell Background

    As far as my research indicates, Mauser was not even involved in export rifle production in 1929 and the Standard Modell didn't exist as a product until 1931 when
    the development was driven by current business with China and the opportunity to compete against Brno and FN.

    Certainly more investigation into the testing of the shortened kar98b is warranted but that is Farbs turf.

    To date I nor Jon has uncovered any evidence of Mauser involvement with that project.

    As far as Bill's rifle is concerned, its a very cool factory modified SM, likely done in 1941. I believe that both
    the diversion of Banner receivers into standard K98k production late in 1941, and the conversions of some Standard Modells
    were likely concurrent.
    ---- Turbo Myš ----

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