Mauser Banner Standard Modell Waffenamt 655
- Thread starter bill grist
- Start date
Turbo Archie
Well-known member
Not sure what I'm looking at but man is that nice!!!!
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Very nice rifle, some details that might help..
Our database is very limited, both in size and detail to make any firm statements. To few report their rifles and those that do rarely provide complete information. However there are some things that are known and with what has been reported/observed we can make some reasonably accurate speculation.
This is a late Standard-Modell, which as Craig says has military acceptance. This rifle (B82143) is one of the later ones, the earliest with an military acceptance is a B77xxx and it has a 1937 military coded barrel on it (most later B prefix SM have military barrels, probably because they were making the 98k and it was more cost effective to just use one source- verses a separate one for commercial rifles- the DRP rifles have commercial marked barrels because MO wasn’t making barrels for the military in 1933). Obviously e/655 was not in use in 1937-1938 so these might just be rifles in inventory sold to the Army at the start of the war? Not all of the late Standard-Modells (in this B77xxx – B83xxx range) have the military acceptance pattern so not all went to the Army, but at least some rifles starting in the B77xxx range did.
Some background- In 1929 the Standard-Modell lost the trials to a shortened version of the Kar98b, and this was to become the Kar.98k (the origins of the Kar98k was this shortened 98b rifle, not the Standard-Modell or Mauser Banner K) - Original SM foreign sales date to 1930/31 and have a straight bolt, these last well into 1937, during 1937 they seem to start adding these bent bolts to the typical B prefix SM rifles (retaining the bottom sling arrangement), probably to make it more appealing for military/police type sales or because of practicality, - by 1937/38 when these seem to show up they were making the 98k and it would have been a hassle to have different parts in production?
In 1933 Mauser introduced the “Mauser Banner K” for sale to government agencies (DR/DRP- some to SA/SS). I believe this was because the Reichsheer was in the process of adopting the shortened Kar98b and obviously the Railway and Postal authorities would have preferred a version of the new style for their police forces contract.
Anyway, I did not cover much of this in the Mar/09 MRJ article as it was primarily focused on the 1933/34 Mauser Banner K and the circumstances and events that created them. (including much on the Reichsbahn / Bahnschutz and Reichspost / Postschutz organizations).
If anyone else has a Standard-Modell or Mauser Banner K, consider reporting the rifle? Barrel coding is very important, especially on early Standard-Modell’s and Mauser Banner K as very few have been documented.
Our database is very limited, both in size and detail to make any firm statements. To few report their rifles and those that do rarely provide complete information. However there are some things that are known and with what has been reported/observed we can make some reasonably accurate speculation.
This is a late Standard-Modell, which as Craig says has military acceptance. This rifle (B82143) is one of the later ones, the earliest with an military acceptance is a B77xxx and it has a 1937 military coded barrel on it (most later B prefix SM have military barrels, probably because they were making the 98k and it was more cost effective to just use one source- verses a separate one for commercial rifles- the DRP rifles have commercial marked barrels because MO wasn’t making barrels for the military in 1933). Obviously e/655 was not in use in 1937-1938 so these might just be rifles in inventory sold to the Army at the start of the war? Not all of the late Standard-Modells (in this B77xxx – B83xxx range) have the military acceptance pattern so not all went to the Army, but at least some rifles starting in the B77xxx range did.
Some background- In 1929 the Standard-Modell lost the trials to a shortened version of the Kar98b, and this was to become the Kar.98k (the origins of the Kar98k was this shortened 98b rifle, not the Standard-Modell or Mauser Banner K) - Original SM foreign sales date to 1930/31 and have a straight bolt, these last well into 1937, during 1937 they seem to start adding these bent bolts to the typical B prefix SM rifles (retaining the bottom sling arrangement), probably to make it more appealing for military/police type sales or because of practicality, - by 1937/38 when these seem to show up they were making the 98k and it would have been a hassle to have different parts in production?
In 1933 Mauser introduced the “Mauser Banner K” for sale to government agencies (DR/DRP- some to SA/SS). I believe this was because the Reichsheer was in the process of adopting the shortened Kar98b and obviously the Railway and Postal authorities would have preferred a version of the new style for their police forces contract.
Anyway, I did not cover much of this in the Mar/09 MRJ article as it was primarily focused on the 1933/34 Mauser Banner K and the circumstances and events that created them. (including much on the Reichsbahn / Bahnschutz and Reichspost / Postschutz organizations).
If anyone else has a Standard-Modell or Mauser Banner K, consider reporting the rifle? Barrel coding is very important, especially on early Standard-Modell’s and Mauser Banner K as very few have been documented.
mauser99
Senior Member
S.M.
As a side note not mentioned by s.s. is mauser's short lived e/655 was used in 40/41 only. so that is the only dated link to inspection of this rifle... As read in b.b.o.w. Some export rifle shipments were not fullfilled as german military demand went up. And its not uncommon to see leftover Banner/standard modell receivers in straight up k98 trim..
As a side note not mentioned by s.s. is mauser's short lived e/655 was used in 40/41 only. so that is the only dated link to inspection of this rifle... As read in b.b.o.w. Some export rifle shipments were not fullfilled as german military demand went up. And its not uncommon to see leftover Banner/standard modell receivers in straight up k98 trim..
Model 1933 Mauser Standard Modell barrel codes
I realize this is an old posting but I just ran across it today and joined the forum. If the poster, SimsonSuhl, is still researching barrel codings, I have a Mauser banner Model 1933 Mauser Standard Modell Carbine made in 1934, s/n 90###. If you're still interested, I'd be happy to relay any information you're looking for to forward your research. In case it matters, this rifle has 95%+ original finish and appears to be completely original. I purchased it at a gun show, so unfortunately I do not have any history on how it came to the US.....
I realize this is an old posting but I just ran across it today and joined the forum. If the poster, SimsonSuhl, is still researching barrel codings, I have a Mauser banner Model 1933 Mauser Standard Modell Carbine made in 1934, s/n 90###. If you're still interested, I'd be happy to relay any information you're looking for to forward your research. In case it matters, this rifle has 95%+ original finish and appears to be completely original. I purchased it at a gun show, so unfortunately I do not have any history on how it came to the US.....
jack944
Senior Member
Never saw one
Wow I missed this one last year....must have been sleeping that week....
Wow I missed this one last year....must have been sleeping that week....
Correction on Standard Modell Background
As far as my research indicates, Mauser was not even involved in export rifle production in 1929 and the Standard Modell didn't exist as a product until 1931 when
the development was driven by current business with China and the opportunity to compete against Brno and FN.
Certainly more investigation into the testing of the shortened kar98b is warranted but that is Farbs turf.
To date I nor Jon has uncovered any evidence of Mauser involvement with that project.
As far as Bill's rifle is concerned, its a very cool factory modified SM, likely done in 1941. I believe that both
the diversion of Banner receivers into standard K98k production late in 1941, and the conversions of some Standard Modells
were likely concurrent.
As far as my research indicates, Mauser was not even involved in export rifle production in 1929 and the Standard Modell didn't exist as a product until 1931 when
the development was driven by current business with China and the opportunity to compete against Brno and FN.
Certainly more investigation into the testing of the shortened kar98b is warranted but that is Farbs turf.
To date I nor Jon has uncovered any evidence of Mauser involvement with that project.
As far as Bill's rifle is concerned, its a very cool factory modified SM, likely done in 1941. I believe that both
the diversion of Banner receivers into standard K98k production late in 1941, and the conversions of some Standard Modells
were likely concurrent.
Yes, still researching and compiling BC'ing, among other things.
For the SM/Mauser Banner K database, I am trending the siderail markings, whether it has a diamond at the serial, how the bolt is serialed, the barrel shoulder "Ch.#" the gage number on the barrel (should be 156.14), any barrel coding (SM have them usually), whether it has a take down in the stock, any stock markings (in your range they usually aren't) and anything unusual about the rifle or how it is marked.
Many of these things are typical, not important for every variation, but for completeness I track them all because some SM/MBK it does matter. Currently I am tracking 8 variations to this theme.
BTW, I would need more of the serial, at least the 3 first digits, as that is how they are organized. I have half a dozen 90xxx rifles and need to place it within that group.
Thanks
For the SM/Mauser Banner K database, I am trending the siderail markings, whether it has a diamond at the serial, how the bolt is serialed, the barrel shoulder "Ch.#" the gage number on the barrel (should be 156.14), any barrel coding (SM have them usually), whether it has a take down in the stock, any stock markings (in your range they usually aren't) and anything unusual about the rifle or how it is marked.
Many of these things are typical, not important for every variation, but for completeness I track them all because some SM/MBK it does matter. Currently I am tracking 8 variations to this theme.
BTW, I would need more of the serial, at least the 3 first digits, as that is how they are organized. I have half a dozen 90xxx rifles and need to place it within that group.
Thanks
A lack of thoroughness when conducting research generally yields data that's marginally useful at best or downright misleading at worst, so your requests are perfectly reasonable. Unfortunately, I do not have the knowledge or level of expertise to be a proper research assistant, so please bear with me as I muddle through this. The S/N is 90352 followed by a diamond. The bolt is serialed 0352. I have attached four jpgs that should provide you with the side rail marking data you're looking for. There are no external stock markings that I've detected but I have not disassembled it yet. I'll work on that this weekend. Let me know what other information I can provide.
Attachments
Thanks Bruce. I would appreciate any additional information about this rifle that can be determined from the markings in the pictures. I'm not an expert, so it won't take much to tell me more than I already know.
All I know is what I've read in the Mauser Manifesto which has just enough information to make you want more. Also, I need to add this rifle to the rider on my home-owners policy. Any recommendations for an amount it should be insure for?
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Hello Bruce,
I have 2 other serials for your 1934 banner C suffix so i doubled your observation lot LOL. if you send email they are probably small enough to attach
C11088
C11373 Gr.B.B.
B80082 E/655 top receiver
B82231 E/655 top recevier
highest Banner 1934 ser94872 No Diamond proof
I have 2 other serials for your 1934 banner C suffix so i doubled your observation lot LOL. if you send email they are probably small enough to attach
C11088
C11373 Gr.B.B.
B80082 E/655 top receiver
B82231 E/655 top recevier
highest Banner 1934 ser94872 No Diamond proof
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What is the significance of the B, G and U stamps on the receiver?
CB quoting Gerhard Wirnsberger, BESCHUSSZEICHEN
crown/U= final proof; always accompanied by:
crown/B = gun proofed in finished state
crown/G = proof for rifled barrels
crown/N = proofed with nitrocellulose powder
crown/U= final proof; always accompanied by:
crown/B = gun proofed in finished state
crown/G = proof for rifled barrels
crown/N = proofed with nitrocellulose powder
