Mauser Banner Standard Modell Waffenamt 655

Loewe · Jun 25, 2011

I'd like to get the "Ch" number on the barrel shoulder, plus "ANYTHING" marked with an S28 marking would be nice.. not likely but you never know. (SM/MBK parts sometimes have an S28 marking on them, front bands, but other parts are possible, anyone with a SM/MBK do look your rifle over closely for any such markings. Usually located in out of the way locations on the part, in not readily noticeable locations- underneath is common)

This is part of a working theory, that developed during a phone call with Bruce, and I have run this past Joe Steen and Ken Huddle and I am kind of waiting their thoughts- Ken seemed less convinced, but I await his detailed notes!

Jon Speed is not the only high-end researcher lurking, keeping us on our toes, we have a couple that I get correspondence from with thoughts to our postings. Which I sometimes post in the MRJ, - and will here as well.

Oh, rifle value, Bruce is the guy who would know best, but I would think $3k plus, replacement value (matching-original)

Gunther said:
Thanks Bruce. I would appreciate any additional information about this rifle that can be determined from the markings in the pictures. I'm not an expert, so it won't take much to tell me more than I already know. All I know is what I've read in the Mauser Manifesto which has just enough information to make you want more. Also, I need to add this rifle to the rider on my home-owners policy. Any recommendations for an amount it should be insure for?

Gunther · Jun 26, 2011

SimsonSuhl said:
I'd like to get the "Ch" number on the barrel shoulder, plus "ANYTHING" marked with an S28 marking would be nice.. not likely but you never know. (SM/MBK parts sometimes have an S28 marking on them, front bands, but other parts are possible, anyone with a SM/MBK do look your rifle over closely for any such markings. Usually located in out of the way locations on the part, in not readily noticeable locations- underneath is common)

This is part of a working theory, that developed during a phone call with Bruce, and I have run this past Joe Steen and Ken Huddle and I am kind of waiting their thoughts- Ken seemed less convinced, but I await his detailed notes!

Jon Speed is not the only high-end researcher lurking, keeping us on our toes, we have a couple that I get correspondence from with thoughts to our postings. Which I sometimes post in the MRJ, - and will here as well.

Oh, rifle value, Bruce is the guy who would know best, but I would think $3k plus, replacement value (matching-original)

Thank you for the additional info. I disassembled the rifle and took pics of the other markings I could find. The hand guard and stock wood are both identically marked. They have a P to the right of the rifle's serial number and a B to the left. There's also a G on the stock under the trigger guard. The bands have no markings that I could find. I think the rest of the markings show up pretty well in the pics below. I hope this helps. If you could explain what these mean, I would greatly appreciate it!

Loewe · Jun 27, 2011

You did not see a "ch" followed by a number on the barrel shoulder?

The markings are for the most part, probably, just internal assembly markings, meaning lost to us today, but probably meant something to those who assembled the rifles. The markings that are known are the proofing, which I posted about earlier, the proofs are usually on the barrel and receiver and mean the same things. Much like the acceptance stamps on the right receiver are applied to the barrel for the same purpose, accepting certain steps being done.

The 156.14 is a gage of a 7,92mm barrel, and is part of a confusing-technical process Joe Steen once outlined in a correspondence (published in MRJ) in reply to my article on the DRP MBK.

Gunther said:
Thank you for the additional info. I disassembled the rifle and took pics of the other markings I could find. The hand guard and stock wood are both identically marked. They have a P to the right of the rifle's serial number and a B to the left. There's also a G on the stock under the trigger guard. The bands have no markings that I could find. I think the rest of the markings show up pretty well in the pics below. I hope this helps. If you could explain what these mean, I would greatly appreciate it!

bruce98k · Jun 27, 2011

Ch barrel steel codes and the 156.14 bore gauge stamp

Guys and Paul - I will post some info tonite.

These document segments published in the early 1890s dictate the bore gauge for various calibers.
Of note is the 459 designation for .22 and the 156.14 for 8 X 57.

I believe the meaning of the 459 marking on .22 sporting weapons and trainers was unknown at some point.

The factory document identifies the Ch40 code as Bohler steel, ostensibly used for MG08 barrels but used as
part of the Argentine 1933 Police carbine order. The other marking (B.J.) I will make an inquiry with Jon on.
Document is dated Feb. 22, 1933.

This pretty much nails the Ch steel code as identified to a particular steel supplier but no master list has
surfaced as part of our research and Jons backchecks in his archive.

Added 6/28 from Jon: The other steel provider on the CH 40 doc is Bismark Hutte.

Loewe · Jun 28, 2011

As usual Jon Speed and Bruce have provided the impossible!

I figured the "Ch" was related to barrel coding, but never found the connecting piece of the puzzle.

The "Ch" numbers seem to group with certain contracts, the "Ch.45" is a very commonly encountered code on the DR contract, while the "Ch40" is most common on the DRP contract (some "Ch44" here and there), the ss contracts seem to have "Ch50" & "Ch53" most common. "Ch53" shows up later too, in the unmarked MBK's, but not very common so far. Actually none are really common enough in my trends work to really make much of the "Ch" codes.

Of course the above isn't meant as anything more than a generalization of current observations, which are meager to say the least.

bruce98k said:
Guys and Paul - I will post some info tonite.

These document segments published in the early 1890s dictate the bore gauge for various calibers.
Of note is the 459 designation for .22 and the 156.14 for 8 X 57.

I believe the meaning of the 459 marking on .22 sporting weapons and trainers was unknown at some point.

The factory document identifies the Ch40 code as Bohler steel, ostensibly used for MG08 barrels but used as
part of the Argentine 1933 Police carbine order. The other marking (B.J.) I will make an inquiry with Jon on.
Document is dated Feb. 22, 1933.

This pretty much nails the Ch steel code as identified to a particular steel supplier but no master list has
surfaced as part of our research and Jons backchecks in his archive.

bruce98k · Jun 28, 2011

Additional early barrel code data

Paul I edited the thread on the original documents as Jon identified the 'BJ' marking.

Markwart · May 31, 2013

The book dated August 1892. On this time, the “Kaliber Nr.” end with gauge 7,62mm. Later the smaller variants added.

Spooly · Sep 3, 2019

I have one of these! Banner K

B78189

flynaked · Sep 3, 2019

How is the floorplate marked, I don’t see the serial on the forward end? The front action screw looks wrong and is that wood filler beside the swivel reliefs in the stock? Bayo lug is blued too.

Spooly · Sep 3, 2019

I had one dealer tell me it was a export rifle and not a banner. But then again I had several people tell me it was a banner.

I really have no idea. Thats not filler that’s a factory stock repair.

I’m guessing that’s where the old export sling swivel was. The factory changed it when they switch the gun to a K model.

I don’t see a serial number on the forend. I’m guessing they had to change the forend aduring the conversion.

The bayonet lug is blued. I really can’t explain this. Unless export models had a blue bayonet lug.

This rifle has no import marks.

All the serial numbers that are on the rifle do match.

bruce98k · Sep 3, 2019

Standard Modell conversion

Your example is not a Mauser factory conversion but instead is a depot conversion to K98k configuration.
The example owned by Bill still retains the bottom sling configuration but does have the bent bolt modification.
Bills example is also military accepted while the conversions are devoid of any depot stamps or final military acceptance.

Regardless, your example is very cool and fairly scarce.

B.

Spooly · Sep 3, 2019

Thanks Bruce98K!

Do you understand the blue bayonet lug? Is that common?

flynaked · Sep 3, 2019

Spooly said:
View attachment 215255

Thats not filler that’s a factory stock repair.

I’m guessing that’s where the old export sling swivel was. The factory changed it when they switch the gun to a K model. .

Im looking at these areas specifically, I’ve never seen one filled here, always left as a void, only the central wood plug added, how about anyone else?

Spooly · Sep 3, 2019

flynaked said:
Im looking at these areas specifically, I’ve never seen one filled here, always left as a void, only the central wood plug added, how about anyone else?

Here are another picture.

runner · Sep 5, 2019

bruce98k said:
Your example is not a Mauser factory conversion but instead is a depot conversion to K98k configuration.
The example owned by Bill still retains the bottom sling configuration but does have the bent bolt modification.
Bills example is also military accepted while the conversions are devoid of any depot stamps or final military acceptance.

Regardless, your example is very cool and fairly scarce.

B.

Being depot converted to K98k specs, Was the military the intended user? and why did they not have any depot stamps?

runner · Sep 5, 2019

flynaked said:
Im looking at these areas specifically, I’ve never seen one filled here, always left as a void, only the central wood plug added, how about anyone else?

That is the first one I have seen with the small divots on the side of the stock plug filled, period done??

Dave Roberts · Sep 6, 2019

My Standard Modell Banner SSR Conversion #B76652 has same Sling Swivel Type Plug as others shown .

Mauser Banner Standard Modell Waffenamt 655

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