Third Party Press

Waffenfabrik USA MP44

The response I received today from WF USA -

Waffenfabrik USA
February 8 at 7:53am

The main receiver stampings, barrel, op-rod, etc will be made in Germany. The rifle will be completed in the USA after ATF approves the design. The thumbhole stock is for submission only. The production rifle will have the correct stock and grip. Thanks for your patience.


So ... it's appearing more and more like this is a reboot of 2009 ??? The receivers are made over there -- the same as the PTR44 rifles ... I wonder ??? Are they playing the same old song: The rifles come in from German in a "sporting configuration" and are refitted with the correct amount of USA made parts for .922r ??? I saw the parts list / count on Recon's web page some time back. Not sure someone would need a "factory" to build those parts. Could there be 2 different ventures going on here ??? Get rid of old guns the old way, then start making them all over here ???

Things that make you go Hmm ... :boom:

Dog
 
d dAY dOG said:
The response I received today from WF USA -

Waffenfabrik USA
February 8 at 7:53am

The main receiver stampings, barrel, op-rod, etc will be made in Germany. The rifle will be completed in the USA after ATF approves the design. The thumbhole stock is for submission only. The production rifle will have the correct stock and grip. Thanks for your patience.


So ... it's appearing more and more like this is a reboot of 2009 ??? The receivers are made over there -- the same as the PTR44 rifles ... I wonder ??? Are they playing the same old song: The rifles come in from German in a "sporting configuration" and are refitted with the correct amount of USA made parts for .922r ??? I saw the parts list / count on Recon's web page some time back. Not sure someone would need a "factory" to build those parts. Could there be 2 different ventures going on here ??? Get rid of old guns the old way, then start making them all over here ???

Things that make you go Hmm ... :boom:

Dog
Click to expand...



Thanks for that D-Day, just as I expected the so called factory is just a 922r conversion facility (like Recon). Nothing wrong with that per say just as long as these are new parts and not the old defective (heat treat) parts. The problem is how would one know a new part from old production? The answer is you won't till it's too late. :moon: lol

At this time we have no idea if the new parts are any better than the old, I guess someone will just have to fork over the 5-8K and find out.:laugh:
 
Model said:
Thanks for that D-Day, just as I expected the so called factory is just a 922r conversion facility (like Recon). Nothing wrong with that per say just as long as these are new parts and not the old defective (heat treat) parts. The problem is how would one know a new part from old production? The answer is you won't till it's too late. :moon: lol

At this time we have no idea if the new parts are any better than the old, I guess someone will just have to fork over the 5-8K and find out. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Well, based on the response, a couple things for sure is the receivers and op rods are coming over from Germany. As we know, many rifles had to have the lower section of the receiver modified and a piece of the op rod replaced in order to get the rifle to function right. Unless they have properly heat treated the failing op rod part and have improved on the lower section of the receiver, I think it's inevitable that failures will occur after so many rounds have been shot through them. It would be nice if they verified this. If not, I suspect that the few competent gunsmiths who know how to work on PTR44/MP44 rifles will be getting lots of business down the road.

Another interesting note is a pic I pulled off of their web page (Rifle S.N.: 1167) ...

13427843_298779537130221_31095652849349966_n.png

Notice how the magazine does NOT sit flush up in the mag. well ??? This commonly produced feeding problems with many rifles, mine included. If you did not buy one of Ron's cool and groovy replacement mags. back in the day (2009-2010), then remedy 1. was to push up from the bottom of the mag. while shooting or balance the weight of the rifle on the magazine while shooting from a bench. This worked well for me. The better fix was remedy 2. which consisted of having a piece of metal welded into place on the magazine's catch. This was done to ALL my magazines EXCEPT my original WW2 "STG44" mag. ALL my mags. work great now.

I've said it 100s of times. If you buy one of these, SHOOT IT !!! As that is the only way to know. DO NOT make it a "my precious" -- safe queen -- conversation piece that sits in the back of your safe and never sees a range.

Dog
 
Model said:
Yes the HK93/33 is the closest thing to a Stg45 on the market today, but the HK32 chambered in 7.62x39 was (in my mind) the closest thing HK ever made to the Stg45. Only 700 of them were produced in the late 1960's.

The ballistics of the Russian (M43) 7.62x39 round are closer to the (Kurz) 7.92x33 than the NATO 5.56

https://www.google.com/search?q=hk3...X&ved=0ahUKEwjNlqfom4HSAhXH5IMKHVdiDwYQsAQIIQ



PTR32 (middle) is the PTR clone of the HK32.
Click to expand...

You've got a point there! I have a PTR32 and just wish the mags resembled the 93s... That said, you're spot on!
 
It's a standard 922r parts swap. Import the gun with some random trash parts, or missing parts, and assemble it here. Give it a thumb hole stock. When you replace it with a butt and a pistol grip, you have two US parts. Use a US made gas piston, maybe the muzzle device, whatever. Go for the easiest parts to make and swap them out. It's how century does many of the AK's and so on. Nothing new here.
 
d dAY dOG said:
Well, based on the response, a couple things for sure is the receivers and op rods are coming over from Germany. As we know, many rifles had to have the lower section of the receiver modified and a piece of the op rod replaced in order to get the rifle to function right. Unless they have properly heat treated the failing op rod part and have improved on the lower section of the receiver, I think it's inevitable that failures will occur after so many rounds have been shot through them. It would be nice if they verified this. If not, I suspect that the few competent gunsmiths who know how to work on PTR44/MP44 rifles will be getting lots of business down the road.

Another interesting note is a pic I pulled off of their web page (Rifle S.N.: 1167) ...

View attachment 139977

Notice how the magazine does NOT sit flush up in the mag. well ??? This commonly produced feeding problems with many rifles, mine included. If you did not buy one of Ron's cool and groovy replacement mags. back in the day (2009-2010), then remedy 1. was to push up from the bottom of the mag. while shooting or balance the weight of the rifle on the magazine while shooting from a bench. This worked well for me. The better fix was remedy 2. which consisted of having a piece of metal welded into place on the magazine's catch. This was done to ALL my magazines EXCEPT my original WW2 "STG44" mag. ALL my mags. work great now.

I've said it 100s of times. If you buy one of these, SHOOT IT !!! As that is the only way to know. DO NOT make it a "my precious" -- safe queen -- conversation piece that sits in the back of your safe and never sees a range.

Dog
Click to expand...



I don't see these new 44's having the same defective mag issues that the old PTR did, of course anything is possible. The original mags that came with my PTR44 I scrapped long ago and replaced them with two original and 6 good reproduction mags that all run perfectly after Pete's Refurb/Rebuild job.

Good old Ron, what ever happened to that Guy. lol I purchased 3 from him and another 3 form a online source that looked and performed the exact same way. :thumbsup: Anyhow if and when these new Rifles come to town yes shoot and enjoy them. :happy0180: Hopefully they won't break. :facepalm:
 
ditch68 said:
I agree with Wilhelm, the HK33 in 5.56mm (AKA HK93 in semi-auto) is closer, given intermediate power ammo and such. Century C93 is a good rifle and available without the HK pricetag.

I had one, sold it, regret it to this day.

I like the wood too!! I plan on doing that very project and go further, I have a movie prop Denix MP44 I am going to swipe cosmetic parts from to dress up the HK, like the handguard, etc.

Jeff
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That's because most of the rifle is an HK. They took HK33 kits I believe that were originally Singapore(or maybe it was Thai? I have a horrible memory so for sanity sake they were USED kits) used rifles. Recently grabbed a C93 when my guy at century told me they had one for $500.. Jumped all over it.

Sorry to bump an old thread folks but am curious if this project has gone anywhere? No info since April and their website does not work for me which usually means just one thing.


KSH67 said:
I wonder if they aren't setting up production here fully until they get an approval?

With all the crap about the PTR44 out there they are going to have a hard time selling these unless they have a good warranty, readily available replacement parts and a lower price point. Think about it, you can get an SMG FG42 for just a tiny bit more than the PTR44s were going for. AND ZB mags are easier to find and less expensive.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. The demand for the PTR44 here in the states is huge right now with people spending $7000 on average lately if it's not been drug through the mud at a reenactment event. A guy on this forum now makes bolt carriers(and I believe bolts) to replace the weak PTRs with for a reasonable price. If they were to import these again there would be demand.


Being a dealer let me ask the more knowledgeable here.. Whats keeping these from being imported? Would the approval from ATF from the past PTRs not still be in place?
 
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ncreptile said:
That's because most of the rifle is an HK. They took HK33 kits I believe that were originally Singapore(or maybe it was Thai? I have a horrible memory so for sanity sake they were USED kits) used rifles..
Click to expand...

I believe those were Malaysian. Thailand also had a licensing agreement with HK. In any case your point is valid.

ncreptile said:
Recently grabbed a C93 when my guy at century told me they had one for $500.. Jumped all over it.
Click to expand...

I snagged 2 at that price $499.95? a couple years ago. NIB with 2 mags and a bayo. They were not the typical chimp built junk either IMHO. :thumbsup:
 
ncreptile said:
That's because most of the rifle is an HK. They took HK33 kits I believe that were originally Singapore(or maybe it was Thai? I have a horrible memory so for sanity sake they were USED kits) used rifles. Recently grabbed a C93 when my guy at century told me they had one for $500.. Jumped all over it.

Sorry to bump an old thread folks but am curious if this project has gone anywhere? No info since April and their website does not work for me which usually means just one thing.




I have to disagree. The demand for the PTR44 here in the states is huge right now with people spending $7000 on average lately if it's not been drug through the mud at a reenactment event. A guy on this forum now makes bolt carriers(and I believe bolts) to replace the weak PTRs with for a reasonable price. If they were to import these again there would be demand.


Being a dealer let me ask the more knowledgeable here.. Whats keeping these from being imported? Would the approval from ATF from the past PTRs not still be in place?
Click to expand...

I'm also curious if this Waffenfabrik attempt is just another empty promise from a vaporware company or they're seriously trying to (re)import the SSD clones. I recently sent SSD an email (in German) asking about this and have yet to receive a reply.

My (new to me) PTR-44 will be arriving soon, actually have mixed feelings about more being imported. On the one hand, nice to have a parts supply. On the other, less of an exclusive club...but at 5K I don't see people lining up.
 
Sturmgewehr said:
I'm also curious if this Waffenfabrik attempt is just another empty promise from a vaporware company or they're seriously trying to (re)import the SSD clones. I recently sent SSD an email (in German) asking about this and have yet to receive a reply.

My (new to me) PTR-44 will be arriving soon, actually have mixed feelings about more being imported. On the one hand, nice to have a parts supply. On the other, less of an exclusive club...but at 5K I don't see people lining up.
Click to expand...

That should tell you everything you need to know. :(

after 8 years the PTR44 is still the only game in town for the MP44 clone.

Enjoy your new to you PTR44 when it shows up and good luck with it.

 
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Here's a link to Waffenfabrik's FB account guys: https://www.facebook.com/Waffenfabrik-USA-287603228247852/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf

As you can see, the January 11, 2018 post is the first post they have made in around 9 months and all they said was the rifles are still coming :laugh: and they are "restructuring the manufacturing site of Waffenfabrik" ... whatever that means. :facepalm:

No offense, but we have heard this since 2011 or 2012 from various places. As far as where I stand, I will believe it when I see it. In the meantime, these rifles can keep climbing in value like my 401K. Yes ... I know, value = what people will pay for something. Right now though "value" of these rifles are around 7K a pc. with 1 mag. and a sling. I got a LOT more "stuff" than that for mine. And I had the MP44 master work on mine :thumbsup:

1490787_694399740604093_88817886_o.jpg
 
d dAY dOG said:
Here's a link to Waffenfabrik's FB account guys: https://www.facebook.com/Waffenfabrik-USA-287603228247852/?hc_ref=SEARCH&fref=nf

As you can see, the January 11, 2018 post is the first post they have made in around 9 months and all they said was the rifles are still coming :laugh: and they are "restructuring the manufacturing site of Waffenfabrik" ... whatever that means. :facepalm:

No offense, but we have heard this since 2011 or 2012 from various places. As far as where I stand, I will believe it when I see it. In the meantime, these rifles can keep climbing in value like my 401K. Yes ... I know, value = what people will pay for something. Right now though "value" of these rifles are around 7K a pc. with 1 mag. and a sling. I got a LOT more "stuff" than that for mine. And I had the MP44 master work on mine :thumbsup:

View attachment 167897
Click to expand...

IF they ever import more, prices will go down...but original parts will be harder to come by as the new rifles’ internals fail (yeah I have no confidence that SSD would actually heat treat anything properly the second time). IF the market is suddenly flooded with more shoddy SSD rifles, business opportunity for someone to machine some reliable internals.

Here’s a tangent, maybe better suited for a different thread but I’ll ask: Is a form 4 required to buy parts from a foreign source? I’m talking non-NFA (no fire control), ie bolts and carriers? Lots for sale on GB from Germany and Poland, but wondering about the red tape involved.
 
Sturmgewehr said:
IF they ever import more, prices will go down...but original parts will be harder to come by as the new rifles’ internals fail (yeah I have no confidence that SSD would actually heat treat anything properly the second time). IF the market is suddenly flooded with more shoddy SSD rifles, business opportunity for someone to machine some reliable internals.

Here’s a tangent, maybe better suited for a different thread but I’ll ask: Is a form 4 required to buy parts from a foreign source? I’m talking non-NFA (no fire control), ie bolts and carriers? Lots for sale on GB from Germany and Poland, but wondering about the red tape involved.
Click to expand...

Correction: Form 6
 
Model said:
Pete (shortfall) did a complete overhaul on it. Carrier/oprod/bolt/recoil spring are all original MP44 parts. :thumbsup:

I found the parts and he did the work.
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Nothing cosmetic? Also interesting that an original spring was preferred, I was under the impression late war springs from Germany were mediocre at best and without a robust lifespan.
 
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mostpeople said:
Nothing cosmetic? Also interesting that an original spring was preferred, I was under the impression late war springs from Germany were mediocre at best and without a robust lifespan.
Click to expand...


After Pete did the work he tested it with an (His) original MP44 spring and all went well. After getting it back from him I installed my original PTR (SSD) spring and was getting slam fires. The simple fix was installing an original Mp44 spring, no more slam fires. It seems that the original PTR44 spring was too stiff for the transplanted MP44 part's. As far as MP44/Stg44 recoil springs being substandard well that's a new one on me.
 
Sturmgewehr said:
IF they ever import more, prices will go down...but original parts will be harder to come by as the new rifles’ internals fail (yeah I have no confidence that SSD would actually heat treat anything properly the second time). IF the market is suddenly flooded with more shoddy SSD rifles, business opportunity for someone to machine some reliable internals.

Here’s a tangent, maybe better suited for a different thread but I’ll ask: Is a form 4 required to buy parts from a foreign source? I’m talking non-NFA (no fire control), ie bolts and carriers? Lots for sale on GB from Germany and Poland, but wondering about the red tape involved.
Click to expand...

it depends on the country, whether they will even ship to you. In germany most parts and magazines are no longer being exported, you may find someone who will, but most will not. all commercial parts handlers will not.

As far as a form 4 its up to the individuals, members here do and some don't, customs can't open every package, I would not order a receiver or magazine from europe

we here( I can speak for all MP-44 guys here ) have faith in dingo http://www.dkproductiongroup.com/

welcome to the site
 
springs

Model said:
After Pete did the work he tested it with an (His) original MP44 spring and all went well. After getting it back from him I installed my original PTR (SSD) spring and was getting slam fires. The simple fix was installing an original Mp44 spring, no more slam fires. It seems that the original PTR44 spring was too stiff for the transplanted MP44 part's. As far as MP44/Stg44 recoil springs being substandard well that's a new one on me.
Click to expand...

I had some springs made. They ended up a few thou larger wire (done per a print but the originals measure smaller than the print)and likely better material. They are a bit stiffer than originals but work ok and do not cost $90. I mostly run original springs in my guns and have never had any problems with them at all.
Thinking the stiffer ones would allow the carrier to run out on the spring and not whack the receiver cap as much but they'd push the carrier forward with more force.
A decent trade off? I do not really know. Could help cause slamfires?
Pete
 
sprat said:
it depends on the country, whether they will even ship to you. In germany most parts and magazines are no longer being exported, you may find someone who will, but most will not. all commercial parts handlers will not.

As far as a form 4 its up to the individuals, members here do and some don't, customs can't open every package, I would not order a receiver or magazine from europe

we here( I can speak for all MP-44 guys here ) have faith in dingo http://www.dkproductiongroup.com/

welcome to the site
Click to expand...

I took a look at his site today, probably one of the only if not THE only US importer of SSD parts? I’ll be picking up my PTR-44 on Monday (assuming NICS is operating during the gov’t shutdown). Hopefully I’m not replacing broken components anytime soon, as this one has an original bolt and carrier. But good to know dingo has items in stock.
 
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