Third Party Press

1918 Oberspree

All of which was owned by DWM... technically the looted machines from Belgium belonged to a German company, therefore DWM was the victim of the theft, which escapes most history books.

This is not to say that the German Army didn't loot Belgian and French property, - if a company wouldn't cooperate then its machinery was faced with seizure (Pieper cooperated and kept their property), but in this one isolated case, because DWM was the primary owner of FN at the time, the machinery was not Belgian property.

In the end the only victim (of theft) of all this confiscation was the share holders of DWM. The German Army looted DWM's FN property for the new factory at Oberspree (Spandau also received some of the machinery), and after the war Belgium stole it back and revoked DWM ownership of FN. However, as the primary owners of DWM were large banks, and as the system of capitalism requires owners to take certain risks in pursuit of profit, there is no great victim here.

One question does come to mind though, it is known DWM owned half of WOK, one wonders if this is due to the machines looted from FN (credits for them due to the fact DWM would have protested this seizure if looted outright) or was DWM coerced to buy into this new factory (in addition to the stolen machines).

Lastly, this practice of Germany during its occupations of foreign countries is not unique to Germans or the German Army. Similar practices were common in Germany after both World Wars, - German firms after WWI had to be inspected and certified by the IAMCC to resume business. Many firms were harmed by these delays (and corruption all such programs generate), many firms were harmed by directives ordering them to sell machines, - or return machines to Belgium/France because they were stolen (though unwittingly so, bought legally during the war, but still stolen in the absolute sense), also directed to change their production schedule in order to be certified (what German firms made were scrutinized due to the disarmament clauses, which included exports...).

Needless to say this was far more ugly after WWII, - the soviets made the German Army look like novices at looting; the French had considerable zeal at goosestepping over any German they could run over, the sanctimonious American Army micromanaged every element of German life and infused progressivism governing tenet of collective guilt upon a nation of 80 million, - of a nation national socialism never obtained more then 37% of the vote (every election after the NS were bleeding votes, they were a flash in the pan, - and entirely fueled by idiotic foreign intervention in German life...) and who never elected Hitler to any office.

Not much, but some new information about WOK showed up these days.

The machinery came from FN/Herstal.
The Germans confiscated 1576 machines at FN and moved them in 117 railway wagons from Herstal to Oberspree.
The last wagon with machines left Herstal December, 24th 1914.
 
The interwar period is the most chaotic period in modern German history, - other than the last year of WWII, say September 1944-September 1945, before the final arrangement dictated at Yalta and Potsdam were in place. And these two periods have a lot in common, both were driven by foreign intervention which took no consideration for the actual facts on the ground or what led to to conflict in the first place.

There was no way of solving the German "problem" (German economic hegemony over Europe) by perpetual military occupation, nor could it be stopped by artificial restraints over Germany's economic life (looting-reparations and subjection), all of which would only provoke people to desperation (Hitler).

You are absolutely correct Paul the interwar period is such an interesting time frame. I mean you think about all the revolutions, strikes, paramilitary organizations, etc. It's a wonder how Germany even survived in that time frame. I'm still hoping for someday more is found out about Wok. Maybe more records will turn up.
 
Only leftists (leftwing social democrats and their kissing cousins "nazis" and communists) think such a thing as value or profit is tacky or reprehensible. Of course those same socialists think it is absolutely appropriate they should not live under the same laws and ethics that they impose upon everyone else...

Regarding the rifle, one would have to see more of it, the stock appears matching, which is very difficult to find. Any interwar rifle in original condition is a great rarity, most were thoroughly reworked in the lead up and during the war. The components would matter also, it is incredibly important to value that the rifle is original, preferably factory original, which is the standard all other conditions are measured by.

If you could take more pictures, the bolt, rear sight, stock markings in particular, it would help a great deal; even if mismatched the bolt will influence the value, - bolts alone can be worth hundreds of dollars based upon what it came out of. The rearsight could indicate a subsequent rework, the stock markings also could identify ordnance work. Naturally the damage to the stock is not a good thing, though if the characteristics suggest the stock is factory original it would be a big plus.

This rifle variation is the origin of the S28, possibly the most interesting of the interwar variations. They have a following, though like all things from 1919-1933 there are fewer specialists of these rifles, though they tend to be among the most knowledgeable collectors 1888-1945.

Try and do more pictures, the acceptance details are important here. If the rifle is mostly factory original you should not have a problem selling it, though so few of these have sold it would only be a guess to what yours would sell for. Rarity is only one element of value, - demand is another and these have less buyers than Imperial or the NS era.

So I guess that leaves the tacky question of what would this rifle be worth?
 
A quick peek through results show two S28's, that were bolt mismatchers, sold for $2500-2700 though both had nice stocks. These had some evidence of reworking though, but the rifles were largely original.

Of course a full blown S28 is a Kar.98b and that alone would draw extra attention, - any 98b is going to get more attention than an upgraded G98... Your rifle also has two big positives, neither of which need a specialized knowledge of the interwar period and the quirky variations of the period. One is it is an Oberspree, that alone draws fire from even the most superficial "collector", second its 1918 dated, definitely the toughest year during the war. Even though this rifle was not made during the war, most will not be able to make that distinction, - few realize that the S28's have stocks with Imperial style acceptance (even the Prussian cypher) and that your rifle will be naturally assumed to be Imperial to most bidders. Which is good for a seller as it would have cross over appeal to Imperial collectors.

I could not find an Oberspree/18 G98 final auction result, but my bet is selling it as a Oberspree/1918, not as some postwar variation, would bring better results. Anyone that would value this rifle for what it is would already know what it is and wouldn't need you to draw attention.
 
I agree 100% with that Paul anything with WOK in it draws attention really quick. I saw an all matching 1916 WOK sell a few weeks ago for over $2500. And the stock was sanded and had been refinished by someone.

Too get good auction results Fish you have too have a good description and alot of good clear pictures showing every detail of the rifle. I for one have seen really nice rare piece sell cheap because the seller was too lazy too show pictures. The buyers stole those guns and took the gamble due too the seller having an inspection period.
 
left side and butt plate
 

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bolt I thimk the end is 09 not 00
 

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sight and clip and 1 bolt
 

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I cannot resist

the bottom of the barrel and the underneath
 

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right side

will provide full side shots when it is light out
 

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So I guess that leaves the tacky question of what would this rifle be worth?

Tacky would be demanding to know what its worth and not offering pictures and information to those who study rifles.

That said, thanks for the additional pictures. This is a fascinating rifle. It is very lucky that the stock is original matching.
 
Looks like a bolt mismatcher, which is pretty hard to find, - would have been better had the bolt matched also. I can't tell the bolt maker, your bottom flat has too much flash to make out the maker or even period.

It should do well at auction, but I would strongly recommend borrowing or buying a good camera if you sell it, or if you have a child, get them to take good pictures with a good camera. Good clean pictures done with good lighting are a must for a fair price (these are poor because of bad lighting), as are the right angles, - it is less about how many as what you take pictures of. Markings matter, the top, right, left receiver, the rear sight (which often dates a rifle, this RS is probably late 1920's to about 1931, which is probably when it was upgraded to sS patrone, when made it was probably dual compliance), the stock is very important. What you have shown looks promising, the stock has the right acceptance for one of these (essentially the same as the S28), but better pictures sell rifles.

Not too many Obersree/18's are known with matching stocks, a couple, one illustrated in Mike & Bruce's book, - it too is not a wartime rifle. There is at least one Oberspree/19 with an original stock, but very much nicer condition, really like new, nicest i have seen. It is in NJ as I recall. Of course there are a few full S28's, but they are 98b configuration. As for wartime Oberspree/18's, they are pretty darn impossible to find original-matching. Mark Wieringa's example is the only known original-matching example (of a wartime example).
 
Thanks Praying.

As I said, I was left a collection of militaria. And while I appreciate the collection and enjoy the research, a lot of stuff I simply do not have the room to keep. My father bought a bunch of stuff home from WW 2 so I don't need more and want to be able to say these your grandfather brought home. Which means these weapons are all going to be looking for new homes. I got about 10-15. Half I would guess are German. It seems by dumb luck I pulled the beauty for the first one.
 
thank you Loewe
Job recently has meant getting in after dark.Need to get outside and take some photos to improve the lighting
 
Indeed very hard too find, and Fish I wish you the best of luck in your sells sir. Remember what I said good pictures sell guns.
 
well here are some new photos.These better? Good enough?
 

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and again this attempt better?
 

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set 3 and a short message
 

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