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legal question

M

maxipum

Senior Member
I looked at an early oberndorf rifle today, advertised as all matching of course but was in fact the worst case of bubbary in recent history all numbers restamped over existing numbers. I believe it came to this country as an Albanian import judging by the extensive pitting and generally poor condition. Witch brings me to my question is it illegal to remove an import mark? I noticed an area of significant grinding on the bottom of the barrel in front of the bayonet lug where you would usually find a century arms import mark. If the import mark is legally required then is it not illegal to remove it? I was thinking of calling the atf to ask but figured I could find the answer here.
 
Unless there have been recent changes to the law, I am fairly certain it is not illegal for an importer to remove an import mark from a firearm once the marked item has cleared the Customs import process and has been released to the importer for sale in the US. It definitely is not illegal for the private citizen buyer of the firearm to remove an import marking.
 
The marking is mandatory upon import to identify it with source of origin in this country. Removing that removes federally mandated import identification. I'd check ATF's faqs.
 
Thanks hambone, I will check the atf website. If I can make this scumbag sweat a bit it might keep him from trying it again.
 
If the mark can't be removed, then it means that you effectively can't rebarrel a gun with such an import mark. It would also mean that you can't shorten it or perhaps even heavily buff it for a refinish. I've always thought they were like passport stamps. You need one to get in, but you can stay without carrying it around.

I'd ask the ATF anyhow.
 
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The rifle, if properly transferred, would be entered into the FFL books on the 4473 Form by the Importer and either the manufacturers serial number or the serial number assigned by the Importer.
I agree wholeheartedly with Hambone that the Importer information cannot be altered or removed. The ATF also has regulations for font size and depth.


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As has been recommended, contact ATF to see what their current advice might be since their interpretation may have changed. However, this was the ATF response to an acquaintance in regard to a question about removing importer markings after the imported firearm had been released by Customs.
 

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Cololab said:
As has been recommended, contact ATF to see what their current advice might be since their interpretation may have changed. However, this was the ATF response to an acquaintance in regard to a question about removing importer markings after the imported firearm had been released by Customs.
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That's excellent information Cololab. One should NEVER rely upon what someone tells you, particularly as it pertains to ATF regulations. Rely upon the regulations themselves, ATF's official stated in writing position on their site or in a letter responsive to an inquiry.
 
To give a bit of background about the above ATF letter, the person who provided it to me is a now retired gunsmith and not an importer. Somewhere in his gunsmithing pursuits the question arose regarding whether he had a legal obligation to reapply any importer markings on any firearms he customized, rebarrelled, reblued, etc. FWIW today, this was what he was advised at that time.
 
Legal question

Thank you for the information. I still wonder however if there is a distinction between changing out a barrel for safety or better performance and actually removing the import marks altogether in the first instance (and what the Atf letter references) the import marks remain. Maybe splitting hairs but this guy really pissed me off. Ignorance is one thing but this guy clearly intended to deceive.
 
One can only wonder about the number of firearms that have been altered over the years by removing import marks in attempts to enhance values. Most collectors I know have in their past lives to one degree or another considered import marked guns to be worth less; even if the firearm was otherwise correct, matching, etc. How much less was/is directly related to the rarity of the item.

I'm not sure how much import markings alone impact value today, but the person about whom you speak must think it's a negative factor. The renumbering is an altogether different matter.

If you pursue inquiries with ATF, please share your findings with us.
 
I spoke with an agent this morning and cololab is correct, the official position is that import marks or any other markings on a firearm for that matter other than the serial number may be removed with no consequences. :googlie
 
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